Why does the existence or non-existence of god matter?

Discuss atheism, religious apologetics, separation of church & state, theology, comparative religion and scripture.
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Politesse
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Post by Politesse » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:03 am

[quote=""Jackrabbit""]
Politesse;682989 wrote:I do not think that our Supreme Court would find a small minority group's interpretation of "child abuse" to be more important than a constitutional right, on balance. After all, if they started taking children away from Christians because atheists are upset with them, fairness would require that they do the same to atheists' children on behalf of the Christians who similarly believe other perspectives than their own to be "abuse", and Muslims' children to please the Hindus, and socialists' children to please the capitalists, and deontologists' children to please the utilitarians, quiver-full families to please the Malthusians, carnivore families to pleas the vegetarians, and so on. The government owes you no special favors, unless it should extend them to all.
False equivalence much?

The original comment was about "Lying to your children and making them believe that something fictional is non-fictional"

In what way do atheists do that? Bear in mind that we don't make assertions about religion one way or the other because they cannot be proved. Therefore we don't assert that your cartoon god is fictional. We just assume it, based on lack of evidence of said god.

Jeebus, this sounds like Orangeface and his "both sides are responsible for Charlottesville" shit.[/QUOTE]

So lying to your child by saying that something fictional is non-fictional is child abuse, but lying to your children by saying that something non-fictional is fictional is not? In any case, I do not in fact want the government to have the authority to decide what is or is not a "lie", and break up families if they disagree. Or do you imagine that such a power would not be abused? You are a dangerous fool if you trust a kleptocratic empire to decide what "Facts" you and your children are allowed to believe.

As for "both sides are responsible for Charlottesville", one of us is recommending that no changes be made, while the other is proposing an heinous act of state violence to promote their beliefs by force. Which of us is supposed to be the neo-Nazi here?
"The truth about stories is that's all we are" ~Thomas King

sohy
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Post by sohy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:26 pm

I'm with Poli on this. My parents told me that Jesus was the Son of God and I must believe or go to hell etc. This wasn't a lie to them. They really believed this. They told me that Santa was real too. When I realized he wasn't at the age of 4 and a half, I was proud of myself. When I realized that Jesus wasn't the son of God and there weren't any gods, I felt enlightened. In some ways, being told these things, helped me have more patience and tolerance toward people with beliefs that I don't agree with.

But, despite the crazy beliefs and the Sundays spent in church, taking me away from my parents would have been the most cruel thing that could have been done to me as a child.

You guys are starting to sound far more authoritarian than the parents that teach their kids to believe a certain religion. :eek: I hope you're not serious.

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Hermit
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Post by Hermit » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:46 pm

I'm with Poli too, especially when he pointed out that "if they started taking children away from Christians because atheists are upset with them, fairness would require that they do the same to atheists' children on behalf of the Christians who similarly believe other perspectives than their own to be "abuse", and Muslims' children to please the Hindus, and socialists' children to please the capitalists, and deontologists' children to please the utilitarians, quiver-full families to please the Malthusians, carnivore families to pleas the vegetarians, and so on."

Jackrabbit's reply was borne of an ideological blindness that would have done any 17th century inquisitor proud.

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Jackrabbit
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Post by Jackrabbit » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:14 pm

[quote=""Politesse""]
Jackrabbit;682993 wrote:
Politesse;682989 wrote:I do not think that our Supreme Court would find a small minority group's interpretation of "child abuse" to be more important than a constitutional right, on balance. After all, if they started taking children away from Christians because atheists are upset with them, fairness would require that they do the same to atheists' children on behalf of the Christians who similarly believe other perspectives than their own to be "abuse", and Muslims' children to please the Hindus, and socialists' children to please the capitalists, and deontologists' children to please the utilitarians, quiver-full families to please the Malthusians, carnivore families to pleas the vegetarians, and so on. The government owes you no special favors, unless it should extend them to all.
False equivalence much?

The original comment was about "Lying to your children and making them believe that something fictional is non-fictional"

In what way do atheists do that? Bear in mind that we don't make assertions about religion one way or the other because they cannot be proved. Therefore we don't assert that your cartoon god is fictional. We just assume it, based on lack of evidence of said god.

Jeebus, this sounds like Orangeface and his "both sides are responsible for Charlottesville" shit.
So lying to your child by saying that something fictional is non-fictional is child abuse, but lying to your children by saying that something non-fictional is fictional is not? In any case, I do not in fact want the government to have the authority to decide what is or is not a "lie", and break up families if they disagree. Or do you imagine that such a power would not be abused? You are a dangerous fool if you trust a kleptocratic empire to decide what "Facts" you and your children are allowed to believe.

As for "both sides are responsible for Charlottesville", one of us is recommending that no changes be made, while the other is proposing an heinous act of state violence to promote their beliefs by force. Which of us is supposed to be the neo-Nazi here?[/QUOTE]
Strawman. Either that or inability to read. Point to the place where I advocated "lying to your children by saying that something non-fictional is fictional". I specifically said that atheists typically don't make assertions about the existence of gods one way or the other. I sure as hell wouldn't. Therefore no statement was made at all. And no lie.

If I had had kids, I would never have brought up the topic of religion in the first place. When it reared its ugly head due to its infestation of society, I would have simply said I don't believe any of it and why and they would have to make up their own mind. I would have encouraged them to think and not just emote. I have heard many, many atheists say basically the same thing.

And I wasn't proposing anything. Someone else did that. I was simply objecting to the claim that the two points of view are mirror images of each other when it comes to behavior. There are plenty of things they do that I don't. That's what the Charlottesville comment was about.
Last edited by Jackrabbit on Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jackrabbit
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Post by Jackrabbit » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:18 pm

[quote=""Hermit""]I'm with Poli too, especially when he pointed out that "if they started taking children away from Christians because atheists are upset with them, fairness would require that they do the same to atheists' children on behalf of the Christians who similarly believe other perspectives than their own to be "abuse", and Muslims' children to please the Hindus, and socialists' children to please the capitalists, and deontologists' children to please the utilitarians, quiver-full families to please the Malthusians, carnivore families to pleas the vegetarians, and so on."

Jackrabbit's reply was borne of an ideological blindness that would have done any 17th century inquisitor proud.[/quote]
In other words, you really didn't read what I said either.
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Koyaanisqatsi
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Post by Koyaanisqatsi » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:58 pm

[quote=""Politesse""]I do not think that our Supreme Court would find a small minority group's interpretation of "child abuse" to be more important than a constitutional right, on balance.[/quote]

Nonsense. They did the same thing when they affirmed slavery or prohibited alcohol. That lasted until addicts and criminals mounted a concerted effort to get it back in spite of the fact that alcohol is one of the biggest killers and is objectively horrible for any human to ingest. That doesn’t stop us from doing so, but from an objective, moral standpoint, it should absolutely be illegal to produce and sell any such poison.

Governments already protect their citizens against all manner of child abuse.
After all, if they started taking children away from Christians because atheists are upset with them
Strawman. What a shock.

The only reason you are objecting to the government protecting its citizens against child abuse is because you’d have to concede that altering/manipulating/destroying a child’s critical thinking abilities the way cults do constitutes child abuse, which in turn would force you to concede/confront the fact that you are not only one of the abused, but are actively supporting its continuance.
Last edited by Koyaanisqatsi on Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Koyaanisqatsi » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:14 pm

[quote=""Politesse""]So lying to your child by saying that something fictional is non-fictional is child abuse[/quote]

And now the watered-down straw. You know damn well we’re not talking about anything so shallow as JUST lying to your child. Since you’re pretending to have such a hard time with this, substitute in “Scientology” and all of the countless abuses that this specific cult has inflicted upon its members directly as a result of destroying their critical thinking if that will help you focus on the deeper issues involved in what we’re talking about.
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Post by Koyaanisqatsi » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:47 pm

[quote=""sohy""]My parents told me that Jesus was the Son of God and I must believe or go to hell etc. This wasn't a lie to them. They really believed this.[/quote]

Except that it actually was a lie regardless of what they believed, which is rather the point.

As to you having a comparatively lax indoctrination/parent upbringing, so did I and that’s of course great for us, but then it’s not about individual success stories.
But, despite the crazy beliefs and the Sundays spent in church, taking me away from my parents would have been the most cruel thing that could have been done to me as a child.
I wasn’t advocating this (though there are numerous instances—too many to even begin to recount here—where such invasive force has proved necessary); the point would be more that as child abuse it should never be allowed in the first place.

It’s ironic that we have outlawed “hate speech”—and all but eliminated it from our schools except in the occasional blip of a teacher (usually in a southern state) teaching something asinine—yet cannot even broach the subject of cult indoctrination, because of course we are still a nation with way too many cult members in positions of power who do much the same thing as Poli does; protect cultism unconditionally using the most specious of arguments and all manner of apolegetic fallacies and spin.
You guys are starting to sound far more authoritarian than the parents that teach their kids to believe a certain religion.
Tu quoque and false equivalence.
Last edited by Koyaanisqatsi on Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Jackrabbit » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:40 pm

[quote=""Koyaanisqatsi""]
As to you having a comparatively lax indoctrination/parent upbringing, so did I and that’s of course great for us
[/quote]
I'm envious as hell. I was so sick of fucking religion during my childhood that when I joined the Naval Air Reserve and was given a choice of Naval Air Stations in the US for my active duty, I deliberately picked Seattle, the one farthest away from Dallas. I wanted to have an excuse for not coming back home very often. Dallas itself had a NAS on the list, and my parents expected me to choose that, but there was no way in bubonic hell that I would have done that.
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Post by Greatest I am » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:41 pm

[quote=""Politesse""]I do not think that our Supreme Court would find a small minority group's interpretation of "child abuse" to be more important than a constitutional right, on balance. After all, if they started taking children away from Christians because atheists are upset with them, fairness would require that they do the same to atheists' children on behalf of the Christians who similarly believe other perspectives than their own to be "abuse", and Muslims' children to please the Hindus, and socialists' children to please the capitalists, and deontologists' children to please the utilitarians, quiver-full families to please the Malthusians, carnivore families to pleas the vegetarians, and so on. The government owes you no special favors, unless it should extend them to all.[/quote]

??

I did not and do not think that the constitution was designed to allow the abuse of children regardless of their affiliations or if they are a minority or majority.

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DL
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Post by Greatest I am » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:48 pm

To all.

No children were removed from their parents when the courts threw I.D. out of schools.

No children would be removed from parents if the lying priests, preachers and imams were forced to stop lying either.

We do not let schools lie to our children and should not let other institutions do it either.

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DL
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Politesse
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Post by Politesse » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:40 pm

[quote=""Greatest I am""]To all.

No children were removed from their parents when the courts threw I.D. out of schools.

No children would be removed from parents if the lying priests, preachers and imams were forced to stop lying either.

We do not let schools lie to our children and should not let other institutions do it either.

Regards
DL[/quote]
I don't think you or Koy understand what a serious allegation child abuse is, or the legal process that begins when that accusation is made.
"The truth about stories is that's all we are" ~Thomas King

sohy
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Post by sohy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:42 pm

As to you having a comparatively lax indoctrination/parent upbringing, so did I and that’s of course great for us, but then it’s not about individual success stories.
You have no idea what you're talking about. I had anything but a lax upbringing. Do you think being told that dancing, playing cards, going to the movies etc. are forbidden because they are sins, spending your entire Sundays in church, being told that your Catholic friends won't go to heaven unless you witness to them and help save them is a lax Christian environment? I don't believe that my parents deliberately lied to me. They were converts to a very narrow minded branch of Christianity. Interfering with a parent's right to teach their children to accept a religion as true is far more authoritarian than any harm the parents do by teaching their children what to believe, even if those beliefs are nutty. In fact, being raised in such a strict, weird household, probably helped me to think a lot more. I even attended an insane fundy college for a little while. That experience helped lead me down the road to atheism. Sometimes you need a little hardship and pain to develop into maturity. If only today's parents would realize that. :D

Now, if my parents beat the shit out of me, or tortured me, or constantly criticized or berated me, etc., that would be child abuse. The fact that they taught me the things that they did wasn't child abuse. It was misguided, and some of it was inappropriate, but all parents make mistakes and most parents do the best they can to raise their children. No parent is perfect regardless of their beliefs. Being less than perfect isn't child abuse. I wasn't a perfect parent either.

My father was mentally ill and suffered from PTSD, so that was also a factor in my less than lax upbring. His own parents were mentally ill. They weren't religious, but my father suffered far more harm from being raised by them, than I did being raised by him. I'll spare you the details of some of the things my grandparents did. I understood that my father had a lot of emotional issues and this helped me forgive or at least understand the cause of his inappropriate behavior. He could be a bully, but I stood up to him. That's what you do with a bully. As a result, I was his favorite child and he loved me to the day he died. My sister, who remains a Christian suffered the most from his behavior. My other sister is an apatheist. She believes in a lot of non Christian woo, but she gave up Christianity many years ago. My point being, that we don't always remain steadfast with the beliefs we were taught as children.

My mother is 92 years old and still alive, although she suffers from dementia. She is one of the most naive, innocent women I've ever known. She was easily indoctrinated into a rather extreme form of Christianity. She also had a very difficult childhood, which included an alcoholic father, a poverty stricken mother who made her go to work instead of taking a scholarship she had earned etc. I have absolutely no bad feelings toward my mother. She did what she thought was right. She has many positive traits. She wasn't perfect by any means, but she never abused me either.

Now, if you're saying that a Christian parent who uses their beliefs to actually justify things that we all would consider child abuse, that's one thing. But I think you are very wrong if you believe that teaching a child to believe certain religious or other unproven myths, is child abuse. In fact, I find such ideas deplorable. Character is far more important than beliefs and I've known plenty of Christians that had good character, and were good role models for their children.

Yes. It would be better if all parents let their children develop their own beliefs, but I doubt that will ever happen. Humans have been drawn to mythological ideology throughout history. I don't see that changing anytime soon. My one sister is a good example. Even after she threw out her Christian beliefs, she felt the need to substitute some new mythology to satisfy her needs.

There are parents that teach their children much worse things than that there is a sky daddy watching over them. Shouldn't decent people be more concerned with character than with beliefs? Judging people based on beliefs sounds so much like conservative Christianity to me. Ew.

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Post by Politesse » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:43 pm

[quote=""Greatest I am""]To all.

No children were removed from their parents when the courts threw I.D. out of schools.

No children would be removed from parents if the lying priests, preachers and imams were forced to stop lying either.

We do not let schools lie to our children and should not let other institutions do it either.

Regards
DL[/quote]
I don't think you or Koy understand what a serious allegation child abuse is, or the legal process that begins when that accusation is made.

If you are throwing it around, you are advocating the breaking up of families as a threat to lever against your ideological opponents. And I find that disgusting.

Not to mention revealing, because if you really thought your position was a logical, scientific one, you would not feel the need to use violence to convince people of it.
"The truth about stories is that's all we are" ~Thomas King

sohy
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Post by sohy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:47 pm

[quote=""Politesse""]
Greatest I am;683018 wrote:To all.

No children were removed from their parents when the courts threw I.D. out of schools.

No children would be removed from parents if the lying priests, preachers and imams were forced to stop lying either.

We do not let schools lie to our children and should not let other institutions do it either.

Regards
DL
I don't think you or Koy understand what a serious allegation child abuse is, or the legal process that begins when that accusation is made.

If you are throwing it around, you are advocating the breaking up of families as a threat to lever against your ideological opponents. And I find that disgusting.

Not to mention revealing, because if you really thought your position was a logical, scientific one, you would not feel the need to use violence to convince people of it.[/QUOTE]

I just posted my own rant just before you, but if I totally agree with you.

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Post by Jackrabbit » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:38 pm

[quote=""sohy""]
You have no idea what you're talking about. I had anything but a lax upbringing. Do you think being told that dancing, playing cards, going to the movies etc. are forbidden because they are sins, spending your entire Sundays in church, being told that your Catholic friends won't go to heaven unless you witness to them and help save them is a lax Christian environment?
[/quote]
Sounds familiar. I'll go ya one better. They claimed it was a sin for boys and girls to be in the same swimming pool at the same time. They even had a silly name for it: "mixed bathing".
In fact, being raised in such a strict, weird household, probably helped me to think a lot more. I even attended an insane fundy college for a little while. That experience helped lead me down the road to atheism. Sometimes you need a little hardship and pain to develop into maturity.
True, if it had been more wishy-washy, I might have stayed with it longer. Yes, it put me on the road to atheism. On the other hand, if I had been born to atheists, I would have already been there, would never have had to deal with religion at all. There would have been nothing to deprogram from.

Basically, the massive aggravation of rabid religion helped me escape from the massive aggravation of rabid religion. It "solved" a problem that should never have existed in the first place.
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Post by Greatest I am » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:49 pm

[quote=""Politesse""]
Greatest I am;683018 wrote:To all.

No children were removed from their parents when the courts threw I.D. out of schools.

No children would be removed from parents if the lying priests, preachers and imams were forced to stop lying either.

We do not let schools lie to our children and should not let other institutions do it either.

Regards
DL
I don't think you or Koy understand what a serious allegation child abuse is, or the legal process that begins when that accusation is made.[/QUOTE]

It is serious indeed, as can be attested to by all those who have left the church because of the fear that their belief in hell has produced.

Most Christians apostates that I have talked to say that the main reason they left the church was due to hell. That belief causes many mental problems.

Regards
DL
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Post by Koyaanisqatsi » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:45 pm

[quote=""Politesse""]I don't think you or Koy understand what a serious allegation child abuse is[/quote]

Hey, great, the high horse strawman. That’s usually only reserved as your last ditch effort.
If you are throwing it around, you are advocating the breaking up of families as a threat to lever against your ideological opponents. And I find that disgusting.
Yes! Pour on the righteous indignation straw. Masterfully done.
Not to mention revealing, because if you really thought your position was a logical, scientific one, you would not feel the need to use violence to convince people of it.
And the trifecta! False equivalancies, strawmen and righteous indignation (with just a soupçon of tu quoque). Anything to avoid dealing with the fact that brainwashing children by methodically destroying their critical thinking abilities is in fact heinous and yes child abuse and yes should be made illegal.

Should. Skate around the should by all desperate means as we know you must, but don’t insult anyone’s intelligence with the fake indignation bullshit, please. It’s just tiresome.
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Politesse
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Post by Politesse » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:51 am

[quote=""Koyaanisqatsi""]
Politesse;683027 wrote:I don't think you or Koy understand what a serious allegation child abuse is
Hey, great, the high horse strawman. That’s usually only reserved as your last ditch effort.
If you are throwing it around, you are advocating the breaking up of families as a threat to lever against your ideological opponents. And I find that disgusting.
Yes! Pour on the righteous indignation straw. Masterfully done.
Not to mention revealing, because if you really thought your position was a logical, scientific one, you would not feel the need to use violence to convince people of it.
And the trifecta! False equivalancies, strawmen and righteous indignation (with just a soupçon of tu quoque). Anything to avoid dealing with the fact that brainwashing children by methodically destroying their critical thinking abilities is in fact heinous and yes child abuse and yes should be made illegal.

Should. Skate around the should by all desperate means as we know you must, but don’t insult anyone’s intelligence with the fake indignation bullshit, please. It’s just tiresome.[/QUOTE]

It's not false indignation. I find this opinion contemptible in every respect.
"The truth about stories is that's all we are" ~Thomas King

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Post by Jackrabbit » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:04 am

One factor that should be addressed is lack of choice. Children are forced to go to church whether they want to or not.

True, they may not want to attend school either, but after it's all over nearly all recognize that they really needed it to fully live life.

That isn't the case with religion, since you can teach children to treat others well (what is morality/ethics other than that?) without claiming that a cartoon god commanded it. Many accept the brainwashing, but the rest of us resent it and wish we had back all those thousands of wasted hours.

Children are protected by law in many ways due to their inability to make important decisions. They can't enter into financial arrangements or sign any other kind of document, they can't drive a car, adults can't have sex with them.

So why is religious indoctrination treated differently? Surely it is more "significant" than all these other things that children can't handle. If it was real, shouldn't only adults be indoctrinated, by their own request? Someone who is capable of making their own decisions?
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Post by Koyaanisqatsi » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:54 am

[quote=""Politesse""]I find this opinion contemptible in every respect.[/quote]

You find which opinion contemptible? That governments should do whatever they can to protect against child abuse? No, you absolutely do not find that contemptible. You are 100% in agreement on that opinion. So you not only find it acceptable, you find it imperative that governments do in fact take invasive, necessary steps to stop all forms of child abuse to the best of their abilities, so the whole “what about rights and the Supreme Court and the constitution!?!” feigned indignation bullshit is out.

So is it the opinion that cult indoctrination and the forced destruction of a child’s critical thinking abilities constitutes child abuse? Care to discuss that with the children at Jonestown, or Waco, or among various Mormon, Quaker, Mennonite, Southern Baptist, Catholic, etc., communities? Hell, how about the numerous stories of horrors now emerging from Scientology? No? Only persecute those who rape the body not the mind (that in turn allows for the body to be raped again and again and again)?

So, something a bit more abstract so you can once again try to shift focus on the general, like the idea that ritualized parental and communal lying year after year, month after month, hour after hour for entire lifetimes is not a form of harm for children and doesn’t result in things like denying climate change or the whole pesky little “science” thing or Republicans or killing in the name of our lord, amen?

Do you really want me to post any of the hundreds of thousands of anecdotes over the centuries from deprogrammed cult members to corroborate the harms? List all of the different ways cult brainwashing and the destruction of critical thinking has personally harmed billions of individuals, from the minute to the grandiose?

Or did you mean all the strawmen you keep stuffing to avoid dealing with the actual topic, because in your neighborhood there’s a lovely little place were reasonable people meet and talk about magical things for a short while before getting pancakes and nothing bad ever happens over pancakes?

We get it. Your job is to spread the butter as thin as you possibly can so that no one can point out how dangerous are saturated fats. It’s just a little bit of butter on a huge slice of bread. What harm could that possibly cause anyone to eat just one tiny little crumb from one tiny slice of bread with just a little bit of butter on it one time, right? But of course when you focus and understand that we’re talking about billions of crumbs with billions of tons of butter being eaten every second of every day for millenia by billions of people...
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Post by Jackrabbit » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:17 pm

[quote=""Greatest I am""]
Most Christians apostates that I have talked to say that the main reason they left the church was due to hell. That belief causes many mental problems.
[/quote]
I don't think I ever really believed that hell was real. Not the one they were talking about, anyway. I can't remember really being scared of it. I considered going to their church to be hell.

My main issue was that they were always telling me I couldn't do things, with no actual reason for the prohibition. They claimed it was commanded by the cartoon god, but couldn't explain why he was so upset by it.

For instance, unmarried sex. There were good reasons against it in the primitive times the bible shit was formulated, but sexually-transmitted disease and unwanted pregnancy have been drastically reduced in the modern era. Except in religious families and places where the religious have managed to shut down Planned Parenthood and the like.

A real god would have created us with built-in birth control, where sperm or ova were created only if the person actually wanted to reproduce.
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Post by Greatest I am » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:42 pm

[quote=""Koyaanisqatsi""]
Politesse;683027 wrote:I don't think you or Koy understand what a serious allegation child abuse is
Hey, great, the high horse strawman. That’s usually only reserved as your last ditch effort.
If you are throwing it around, you are advocating the breaking up of families as a threat to lever against your ideological opponents. And I find that disgusting.
Yes! Pour on the righteous indignation straw. Masterfully done.
Not to mention revealing, because if you really thought your position was a logical, scientific one, you would not feel the need to use violence to convince people of it.
And the trifecta! False equivalancies, strawmen and righteous indignation (with just a soupçon of tu quoque). Anything to avoid dealing with the fact that brainwashing children by methodically destroying their critical thinking abilities is in fact heinous and yes child abuse and yes should be made illegal.

Should. Skate around the should by all desperate means as we know you must, but don’t insult anyone’s intelligence with the fake indignation bullshit, please. It’s just tiresome.[/QUOTE]

My kingdom for such eloquence.

Well done indeed.

Regards
DL
God is a cosmic consciousness .
Telepathy the key.
Our next evolution. No choice.

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Post by Greatest I am » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:47 pm

[quote=""Politesse""]
It's not false indignation. I find this opinion contemptible in every respect.[/quote]

I find this contemptible. Do you?

Or do you think that that is a good way to teach about the supernatural?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

Regards
DL
God is a cosmic consciousness .
Telepathy the key.
Our next evolution. No choice.

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Posts: 1939
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Post by Greatest I am » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:50 pm

[quote=""Jackrabbit""]One factor that should be addressed is lack of choice. Children are forced to go to church whether they want to or not.

True, they may not want to attend school either, but after it's all over nearly all recognize that they really needed it to fully live life.

That isn't the case with religion, since you can teach children to treat others well (what is morality/ethics other than that?) without claiming that a cartoon god commanded it. Many accept the brainwashing, but the rest of us resent it and wish we had back all those thousands of wasted hours.

Children are protected by law in many ways due to their inability to make important decisions. They can't enter into financial arrangements or sign any other kind of document, they can't drive a car, adults can't have sex with them.

So why is religious indoctrination treated differently? Surely it is more "significant" than all these other things that children can't handle. If it was real, shouldn't only adults be indoctrinated, by their own request? Someone who is capable of making their own decisions?[/quote]

Good points my friend.

It seems that even the secular side might want to revue what they do. They are promoting the same sheeple attitude.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVqMAlgAnlo&app=desktop

Regards
DL
God is a cosmic consciousness .
Telepathy the key.
Our next evolution. No choice.

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