Would you ever consider placing any of your loved ones in a nursing home?

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justme
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Would you ever consider placing any of your loved ones in a nursing home?

Post by justme » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:32 pm

Would you ever consider placing any of your loved ones in a nursing home?

I've heard simply horible stories of abuse in those places. I've also heard about staff member medicating them into a stupor so they wouldn't have to deal with them. That's not exactly what I want to happen to those people who brought me into this world.

They may have done things in a way that I don't agree with, but I am amoung the living and that speaks volumes to me.

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Ozymandias
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Post by Ozymandias » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:28 am

Well, my parents are certainly not going to come live with me! What else would I do with them? Send them to the dignitas clinic?

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Roo St. Gallus
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Post by Roo St. Gallus » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:02 am

Both of my parents have been placed in 'nursing homes'.

I'm not quite sure what you are considering a 'nursing home', but the term itself implies that nursing care is required, for whatever reason.

Unless you have a family member who is dedicated to caring for an invalid adult 24/7, you will most likely rely upon one level of supervisory care or another for elders. Most enter retirement communities when they need to be assured that they will be taking their medications regularly, feeding regularly, and socializing. Injury and loss of memory are major indicators.

It is true that, in many cases, these facilities are poorly staffed by poorly trained and badly underpaid staff members and atrocities are all too common. My SO is tangentially involved in elder care issues and has worked at many residential facilities with various levels of required care, up to and including hospice care. She fears Alzheimers in her own case and has repeatedly requested that she be allowed to wander in to the wilderness, rather than be placed in some of the homes where she has worked.
Last edited by Roo St. Gallus on Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MattShizzle
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Post by MattShizzle » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:03 am

In my county most elderly are afraid to go to "Berks Heim," which is the county owned and run nursing home, but it's actually better than most of the private ones. The only exceptions are very expensive ones only families with money or former doctors, lawyers, businessmen, etc can afford. Those ones might have 1 or 2 medicaid beds because it's required. Most elderly soon after they go to one are on medicaid because the nursing homes are 10s of thousands of dollars a month - more a month than most people around here get a year on social security. Sometimes it's necessary. Once someone is able to get signed to be put in one they are old enough their kids are at least middle aged, if not elderly themselves and couldn't handle it, unless they could afford in home nursing. In between is an "assisted living center" which is much less expensive but still able to provide more than individuals.

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Hermit
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Post by Hermit » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:50 am

Yes, I would. Nursing homes in Australia are subjected to comprehensive government regulations and tightly monitored. Minimum standards of care are pegged at quite a high level too. There is no shortage of qualified nurses either because the profession is reasonably well paid. Pay and conditions are protected by the union because membership is relatively high. The Australian Nursing and Midwifery Federation" is the largest union in Australia.

sohy
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Post by sohy » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:36 pm

[quote=""Hermit""]Yes, I would. Nursing homes in Australia are subjected to comprehensive government regulations and tightly monitored. Minimum standards of care are pegged at quite a high level too. There is no shortage of qualified nurses either because the profession is reasonably well paid. Pay and conditions are protected by the union because membership is relatively high. The Australian Nursing and Midwifery Federation" is the largest union in Australia.[/quote]

I could say the exact same thing about American nursing homes, but I once had a job that involved reviewing the homes for quality of care and I can tell you that many of them never meet the standards, but it's hard to close down a substandard facility. Some were excellent but they are still a long way from being home.

Statistically, there is more abuse in homes where family members care for the elderly. I've seen it all, both good and bad. I've seen horrible abuse while I was a home health nurse and it took months to get the abused individual out of the home and into a facility. I've also seen exceptional loving care provided by family members.

I still work in a personal care home and for the most part, the care is pretty good. This despite the fact that the care givers make slightly about minimum wage. There are no nurses at that level of care except for me and my new partner. We each work one day a week.

The problem is that there is expected to be a huge shortage of nurses as well as other care givers in the coming years as we baby boomers retire and that could certainly lead to much worse care in nursing homes and similar facilities.

My mother currently lives with my sister. I once considered that putting her in a facility might be the best option. I've changed my mind. If I had to, I'd take her in with us. I've seen the depression and isolation that often becomes common in nursing homes and other long term care facilities. The basic care might be good, but you can't replace home with a large facility, no matter how hard you try.

Of course, if you don't care about your parents or really don't have the time to care for them, than a nursing home becomes the only options unless providing a full time live in care giver is affordable. That's what my in-laws opted for. They had the monetary assets to be able to pay for such care and they were able to stay in their apartment until their deaths. That would be my first choice for anyone.

It's not an easy decision to make, but if there are no other options, nursing home placement may be necessary. I would strongly suggest that if you have a relative in a facility, that you visit very frequently and be a strong advocate for that person.

I also often say that I would prefer to be shot than to be in a nursing home. As you can see, I'm very conflicted.

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Post by sohy » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:40 pm

I wanted to add one thing regarding Justme's original post. There are laws to protect some nursing home residents from being over medicated. It's illegal to use any type of restraint in personal care homes or assisted living facilities. Too much medication is called chemical restraint. Keeping someone tied down or in a chair where they can't get up, is a physical restraint.

But, tell me what you would do if you had a 200lb. 6ft. tall man, who is very strong and is also suffering from Alzheimer's? This is very common. We have a resident like that where I work. We have been waiting for over a month to find a more appropriate place for him. I work tomorrow and hopefully, he will have been transferred to a skilled nursing home. He has already received enough medication to the point where at times, he has been chemically restrained. He's been prescribed the medication because he has threatened both staff and other residents with violence. He has tried to run away as well. He has hit a woman that was becoming romantically invovled with him. He's never given me a problem, but then, I'm not the one who bathes him or tells him that he has to stay inside at three o'clock in the morning, when he is often very combative.

When he gets to the nursing home, most likely it will be necessary to chemically or physically restrain him. If it were me, I'd prefer to be chemically restrained than physically restrained. Dementia is a huge problem among the elderly. Alzehiemer's is just the most common form. Men tend to be more violent than women when they have dementia, although women can become agitated, especially during bathing.

And, you may see people in nursing homes that appear to be chemically restrained, when in fact, they are just experiencing symptoms of progressive dementia. My 92 year old mother has dementia. She sleeps most of the time. I've seen other victims of the disease sleep most of the time. This might actually be more pleasant than being acutely confused and agitated most of the time. You can see why I'm conflicted about nursing homes. They aren't happy places, but sometimes they are the safest places for those with very poor cognition, especially if family members are not able to care for them at home. This is probably why there is statistically more abuse in the home than there is in nursing homes.

Let me give you an example. A very sweet little old lady that was once one of my clients, told me that she cared for her husband at home for several years. One day, he became difficult, and she slapped him in the face. She knew that she no longer had the patience to care for him, so she put him in a nursing home. She told me that he never forgave her, despite the fact that she visited him everyday.

I've seen much worse abuse in people's homes and in one awful case, it took months to get my patient into a nursing home, where she could finally be free of the verbal and physical abuse and neglect from her husband and son. There is no easy solution when it come to caring for older disabled people.

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Roo St. Gallus
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Post by Roo St. Gallus » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:04 pm

I've heard similar stories from my SO.

Most of the staff dealing with such patients as you describe are woefully ill-prepared to deal with such patients. Few of them are trained in compassionate methods. Most are frustrated and at wit's end.
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Loren Pechtel
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Post by Loren Pechtel » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:36 am

[quote=""Roo St. Gallus""]Unless you have a family member who is dedicated to caring for an invalid adult 24/7, you will most likely rely upon one level of supervisory care or another for elders. Most enter retirement communities when they need to be assured that they will be taking their medications regularly, feeding regularly, and socializing. Injury and loss of memory are major indicators.[/quote]

And someone providing care 24/7 isn't always enough for dementia patients--after all, the caregiver has to sleep.

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Roo St. Gallus
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Post by Roo St. Gallus » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:57 am

[quote=""Loren Pechtel""]
Roo St. Gallus;680655 wrote:Unless you have a family member who is dedicated to caring for an invalid adult 24/7, you will most likely rely upon one level of supervisory care or another for elders. Most enter retirement communities when they need to be assured that they will be taking their medications regularly, feeding regularly, and socializing. Injury and loss of memory are major indicators.
And someone providing care 24/7 isn't always enough for dementia patients--after all, the caregiver has to sleep.[/QUOTE]

Which is exactly why my father was placed in a facility. He was deemed a 'flight risk' and had to have a locked facility. We could come in and take him out, but he was basically locked in for his own safety. His facility had an entire secure enclosed outdoor area for residents. He greeted me as his younger brother, talked about going back to work in the Yukon, and wanted me to get ahold of some old partner in crime to come pick him up. Dementia.

Opportunistic pneumonia would kill him in the wake of a broken hip from a fall.
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Peanut
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Post by Peanut » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:14 am

A friend of mine put her mother (81, diabetic, with heart problems, incontinent, forgetful, prone to wander off and set fires - my friend is single and has to work for a living: What were his options?) in an expensive private facility that chewed up the old lady's income from renting her house - where she was unhappy and neglected; within a few months, she developed rashes and a chronic cough and was regularly left to sit for hours in soiled underwear or sheets. So my friend yanked her out of there, and - because the waiting list for a better private one was two years - placed her in the public one...
where she recovered, was well taken care of, clean, combed and cheerful - at a fraction of the cost.
Well, profit has to come from somewhere, right?

There are all kinds of nursing homes, assisted living establishments and seniors complexes. Take time to look around, ask lots of questions, talk to the residents. A good bet where energetic old people are moving about the premises, on their way to lunch or activities or the wheel-trans going downtown. Also, it doesn't smell like cabbage, socks or urine.

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Tharmas
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Post by Tharmas » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:31 pm

Both my parents were able to live at home until their deaths, with care-givers full time at the end. That seems to me to be to optimum way to go. My wife has a rather expensive insurance policy which will pay for such an arrangement for her when the time comes.

As for me, I may put myself into assisted living eventually. I have a disability which will only get worse with age. Right now we have made some pretty big modifications to our house to accommodate my mobility issues. Eventually I expect to be wheel-chair bound, which makes our current house totally impractical if not impossible for me.

I expect me wife, on the other hand, to remain active and mobile for quite a long while.

So an assisted living situation would seem the most practical.

I haven’t really thought this through, or discussed it with my wife, but that’s my current thinking.

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Post by dancer_rnb » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:40 pm

Depends on circumstances. We could never find a caregiver my mom could get along with.
Dad was mom's caregiver. It broke him. They committed suicide together so they wouldn't be a burden on us kids.
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Rie
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Post by Rie » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:06 am

"You understand?" said Ponder
"No. I was just hoping that if I didn't say anything you'd stop trying to explain things to me." - Terry Pratchett, The Last Hero

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Rie
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Post by Rie » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:18 am

"You understand?" said Ponder
"No. I was just hoping that if I didn't say anything you'd stop trying to explain things to me." - Terry Pratchett, The Last Hero

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Rie
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Post by Rie » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:20 am

All I ask is for YouTube to help in posting a little Geriatrica... I probably am a sitting duck but please Mr. YouTube?????? :cool:
"You understand?" said Ponder
"No. I was just hoping that if I didn't say anything you'd stop trying to explain things to me." - Terry Pratchett, The Last Hero

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Rie
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Post by Rie » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:23 am

"You understand?" said Ponder
"No. I was just hoping that if I didn't say anything you'd stop trying to explain things to me." - Terry Pratchett, The Last Hero

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Rie
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Post by Rie » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:24 am

See YouTube or other... wasn't very hard eh? :notworthy:
"You understand?" said Ponder
"No. I was just hoping that if I didn't say anything you'd stop trying to explain things to me." - Terry Pratchett, The Last Hero

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Hermit
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Post by Hermit » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:24 pm

[quote=""Rie""](Not loaded: v=Rclfkeyy1bg)
(View video on YouTube)[/quote]
You're supposed to just paste eleven characters following the equal sign and wrap them in the Youtube tag.

Like so: [YOU TUBE]Rclfkeyy1bg[/YOUTUBE]

That way you get

(Not loaded: Rclfkeyy1bg)
(View video on YouTube)

I don't know if that means you would consider placing your loved one in a nursing home, or not, though. I wouldn't if we go by Evelyn Waugh's meaning of "loved ones". It would be more appropriate to place them in a morgue.

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Aupmanyav
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Post by Aupmanyav » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:00 pm

No. My mother is 95, though she does not need much help at the moment. My wife is very efficient that way, but she too has crossed 70 and finds it difficult to take care of many responsibilities. Even if she is not able to take care of my mother, we (my brother and myself) will make other arrangements, but she will not go to a nursing home. That is against the norm. Our elders are our responsibility.
'Sarve khalu idam Brahma'
All things here are Brahman (physical energy).

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Rie
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Post by Rie » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:08 am

We-ell... um not my loved ones but some others in their dotage do spring to mind :rolleyes: ... Hey there Hermit, by the by... just can't believe that you are Australian. Why not? You're so um stuffy.. no offence meant.I believe that our 'irreverent' take on things is quite funny and shoots down wankers etc. :p
"You understand?" said Ponder
"No. I was just hoping that if I didn't say anything you'd stop trying to explain things to me." - Terry Pratchett, The Last Hero

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