Challenge: can you argue the opposite side?

Propose a formal or informal debate or discussion in this forum. Declare a challenge/invitation or respond to one.
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Lulu
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Post by Lulu » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:24 am

[quote=""Typist""]Cool, I like it, I see you guys are way ahead of me. Standing by, munching popcorn, happily awaiting the inversion of the rhetorical universe...[/quote]

It will be a glimpse into a parallel universe. This is going to be classic, an historical event in SC which we will talk about for years. I imagine many signatures and avatars may be changed, inside jokes will be created.

I am so freaking excited, I am ready to pee my pants. Of course, being 45, and having had two children, it doesn't take much excitement...

My creamy bosoms are swelling with anticipation.

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Post by Typist » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:34 am

Ha, ha! The Typist is now literally typing through tears of laughter!

But seriously, what I really want to know from you nice little miss Lulu, is do you plain to use a chain saw or meat axe to dismember the villainous believers?

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Lulu
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Post by Lulu » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:39 am

[quote=""Typist""]Ha, ha! The Typist is now literally typing through tears of laughter!

But seriously, what I really want to know from you nice little miss Lulu, is do you plain to use a chain saw or meat axe to dismember the villainous believers?[/quote]

Nope, just stone cold logic. :evil:

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Politesse
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Post by Politesse » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:16 am

[quote=""subsymbolic""]

Speak for yourself, I'm doing it as a selfless act of agape: I can't bear the idea of Poli ending up in Hell and so I will forego my lonely Godless atheism to give the poor soul a shot at eternal bliss. It's the least I can do...[/quote]
Listen, I'm just trying to free a couple of minds from the bondage of "faith" and lead us all into a bright future where Reason is the only judge of the worth of a man. Is that so wrong?
"The truth about stories is that's all we are" ~Thomas King

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Lulu
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Post by Lulu » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:20 am

[quote=""Politesse""]
subsymbolic;448868 wrote:
Speak for yourself, I'm doing it as a selfless act of agape: I can't bear the idea of Poli ending up in Hell and so I will forego my lonely Godless atheism to give the poor soul a shot at eternal bliss. It's the least I can do...
Listen, I'm just trying to free a couple of minds from the bondage of "faith" and lead us all into a bright future where Reason is the only judge of the worth of a man. Is that so wrong?[/QUOTE]

*nods*

Also, I am sick and tired of the bullshit they try to inflict upon our children as if their religion were scientific. Not to mention all the entitlements people of faith receive. The world would be a better place without religion.

Ooh! I am going to be a militant atheist, I think!

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Politesse
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Post by Politesse » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:29 am

I plan to be the irritatingly polite sort. I'm not telling anyone what to believe, just offering up some interesting ideas for people to consider if they have the integrity and courage to think past the lonely cage of indoctrination. It's for his own good, really. :rolling:
"The truth about stories is that's all we are" ~Thomas King

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Lulu
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Post by Lulu » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:31 am

[quote=""Politesse""]I plan to be the irritatingly polite sort. I'm not telling anyone what to believe, just offering up some interesting ideas for people to consider if they have the integrity and courage to think past the lonely cage of indoctrination. It's for his own good, really. :rolling: [/quote]

I hope Koy is a fundie. :D

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Politesse
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Post by Politesse » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:32 am

Oh lulu, what else could he possibly be :evil:
"The truth about stories is that's all we are" ~Thomas King

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subsymbolic
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Post by subsymbolic » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:46 am

[quote=""Politesse""]
subsymbolic;448868 wrote:
Speak for yourself, I'm doing it as a selfless act of agape: I can't bear the idea of Poli ending up in Hell and so I will forego my lonely Godless atheism to give the poor soul a shot at eternal bliss. It's the least I can do...
Listen, I'm just trying to free a couple of minds from the bondage of "faith" and lead us all into a bright future where Reason is the only judge of the worth of a man. Is that so wrong?[/QUOTE]

Oh your good intentions open the wide gate and pave the broad road that leads to destruction. Inshallah, I'll be showing you a narrower gate and a harder road!

Time for a song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG0a9WFkgzU

:D

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BWE
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Post by BWE » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:54 am

Well, it will at least be theater. Thanks for doing this.

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Politesse
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Post by Politesse » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:03 am

[quote=""subsymbolic""]Inshallah, I'll be showing you a narrower gate and a harder road![/quote]It's too bad we haven't got any regular Muslim posters atm, so we could do an Islamic edition :)
"The truth about stories is that's all we are" ~Thomas King

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Post by Typist » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:13 pm

[quote=""Politesse""]It's too bad we haven't got any regular Muslim posters atm, so we could do an Islamic edition :) [/quote]

Muslim posters would be a great addition to the forum, as well as members of other major religions.

If your experiment is successful enough it might serve as evidence that all views can be considered fairly here, thus making the forum inviting to a broader audience.

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Post by Koyaanisqatsi » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:44 pm

[quote=""Politesse""]Oh, back to me, is it? How about you guys tackle:

The Bible is the inspired word of God.

Same parameters of a four part argument, Koy is pro- and Lulu is anti-, the Bible is defined as any translation of the Protestant scriptures (and as a possible red herring the question of what is canon is to be considered out of bounds for this debate), inspired means that God is the ultimate source of the text, not necessarily arguing literalism, but rather the more general sort of inspiration that almost all Christians would agree to. God is the God described therein.

What do you guys think?[/quote]

Jesus. Ok. I think I have a unique take on this, but we'll see. Though I think we'll need a deeper level clarification on the word "inspired." You equate that with "ultimate source" so we're not saying that God inspired it in the same way that a belief in God inspired the Sistine Chapel, or inspired an opera, right? This is one of those definition slopes I was talking about.

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Post by Typist » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:46 pm

Simplify to "The Bible is the word of God"?

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Politesse
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Post by Politesse » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:50 pm

[quote=""Koyaanisqatsi""]
Politesse;448860 wrote:Oh, back to me, is it? How about you guys tackle:

The Bible is the inspired word of God.

Same parameters of a four part argument, Koy is pro- and Lulu is anti-, the Bible is defined as any translation of the Protestant scriptures (and as a possible red herring the question of what is canon is to be considered out of bounds for this debate), inspired means that God is the ultimate source of the text, not necessarily arguing literalism, but rather the more general sort of inspiration that almost all Christians would agree to. God is the God described therein.

What do you guys think?
Jesus. Ok. I think I have a unique take on this, but we'll see. Though I think we'll need a deeper level clarification on the word "inspired." You equate that with "ultimate source" so we're not saying that God inspired it in the same way that a belief in God inspired the Sistine Chapel, or inspired an opera, right? This is one of those definition slopes I was talking about.[/QUOTE]
Let's say, it should be about active, intentional inspiration, not just being the subject of a piece of art. Nearly all Christians believe that God played an very important role in the creation of the Bible, and that's what I want you guys debating. The relevant Scripture might be the perennial favorite 2 Tim 3.16: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness."

Typist, for a whole host of reasons, that isn't actually a simplification.
"The truth about stories is that's all we are" ~Thomas King

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Wollstonia
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Post by Wollstonia » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:06 pm

The Bible is writing.

Michel De Certeau (a Jesuit scholar) has a view of writing as a medium which is fixed and permanent, while he sees the act of reading as something more vagabond. Readers he says are poachers and nomads who pick over pieces of writing indulging their freedom to ignore or modify the writer's intent:

Whether it is a question of newspapers or Proust, the text has meaning only through its readers, it changes along with them; it is ordered in accord with codes of perception that it does not control. ( Michel de Certeau, The Practice of Everyday Life, trans. Steven F Rendall. Berkley University of California, 1984, p.170).

How can we then accept the Bible as a statement from the Deity if readers can interpret words how they choose? And not only that but does the word in question mean the same in English, Greek or Aramaic?

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Post by Koyaanisqatsi » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:44 pm

So where are we on this? And what type of cult member am I supposed to be? On a scale of "Jesus is your buddy/Hell is self imposed" to "Westboro Baptist/Fundamentalist"?

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Lulu
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Post by Lulu » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:01 am

[quote=""Koyaanisqatsi""]So where are we on this? And what type of cult member am I supposed to be? On a scale of "Jesus is your buddy/Hell is self imposed" to "Westboro Baptist/Fundamentalist"?[/quote]

Think we are waiting on someone or another to return so that we can begin.

Sorta like your invisible Jesus returning for his second coming... :D

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BWE
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Post by BWE » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:04 am

I feel like I already argue both sides. Everyone seems to think I sympathize with the enemy.

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Lulu
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Post by Lulu » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:16 am

You know what would be hilarious. If someone like Dr.Steve or Erwin came here and didn't know that we were arguing from the opposite side. We could say that all of y'all converted and Poli and I deconverted. :evil:

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Post by rog » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:20 am

[quote=""Lulu""]You know what would be hilarious. If someone like Dr.Steve or Erwin came here and didn't know that we were arguing from the opposite side. We could say that all of y'all converted and Poli and I deconverted. :evil: [/quote]

Don't worry, I'll be quoting you all out of context for years to come :D
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Lulu
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Post by Lulu » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:21 am

[quote=""rog""]
Lulu;449984 wrote:You know what would be hilarious. If someone like Dr.Steve or Erwin came here and didn't know that we were arguing from the opposite side. We could say that all of y'all converted and Poli and I deconverted. :evil:
Don't worry, I'll be quoting you all out of context for years to come :D [/QUOTE]

That's okay. I'm going to quote you on FSTDT!

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Jobar
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Post by Jobar » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:39 am

I've been off for the past 4 days- my modem got zapped in a thunderstorm, so I haven't been able to get online. Just got it replaced this evening.

I was hoping that Redshirt, who is the official mod for Debates and knows way more about it than any of the rest of us, would sign on and see the PM I left him.

I'm going to send on an e-mail, and if he hasn't responded by Sunday, one of us admins will step up to the plate as debate mod, OK?

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Lulu
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Post by Lulu » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:44 am

k

Koyaanisqatsi
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Post by Koyaanisqatsi » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:48 pm

I second that "k." Hey, what do you know? I'm one more "k" away from being a Christian :D

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