A rich man's hobby?

From gardening and needlework to Mornington Crescent and captioneering.
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Tubby
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Post by Tubby » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:55 am

[quote=""Roo St. Gallus""]Anything which requires a moorage/hangar fee is basically a 'rich person's hobby'.

With most, one can rent or lease while one is learning and getting one's certification.
Once obtained, though, the next step is pretty much ownership, and thus, finding a place to service and store it.[/quote]

I just saw this video about a trailer made to hold the little jet I've linked to video of above. That would take care of tie-down fees, at the upfront cost of the trailer and the time needed to bolt/unbolt the wings for every flight.

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Roo St. Gallus
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Post by Roo St. Gallus » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:46 pm

[quote=""Tubby""]
Roo St. Gallus;674908 wrote:Anything which requires a moorage/hangar fee is basically a 'rich person's hobby'.

With most, one can rent or lease while one is learning and getting one's certification.
Once obtained, though, the next step is pretty much ownership, and thus, finding a place to service and store it.
I just saw this video about a trailer made to hold the little jet I've linked to video of above. That would take care of tie-down fees, at the upfront cost of the trailer and the time needed to bolt/unbolt the wings for every flight.

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(View video on YouTube)[/QUOTE]

Neat.

The thing is, the trailer does not have a zero footprint. It still has to be parked somewhere. If you have a large garage or a long driveway, you'd do just fine. I have neither, as do many of us out there who are 'not rich'. The jet needs no servicing? Does it not require regular inspection and maintenance? Is that free, or inexpensive? Do they let you fly those things without insurance? And, what is insurance like on a jet in a trailer and its pilot?
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Tubby
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Post by Tubby » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:18 pm

[quote=""Roo St. Gallus""] The jet needs no servicing? Does it not require regular inspection and maintenance? Is that free, or inexpensive? Do they let you fly those things without insurance? And, what is insurance like on a jet in a trailer and its pilot?[/quote]

Mainly to give a chuckle to somebody who actually has experience in these things, I'll pull some numbers out of the air for annual costs.

servicing (fuel, etc) $3,000
inspection $400
insurance $2,500
=================
total $5,900

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Roo St. Gallus
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Post by Roo St. Gallus » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:50 pm

So, it's like an expensive second car.

I suspect that there is a barrier to entry I'm not seeing.
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Post by Tubby » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:06 pm

[quote=""Roo St. Gallus""]So, it's like an expensive second car.
[/quote]

Like owning a Porsche, I'd guess.

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Post by Hermit » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:32 pm

[quote=""Roo St. Gallus""]So, it's like an expensive second car.

I suspect that there is a barrier to entry I'm not seeing.[/quote]Getting the requisite pilot's license will cost you significantly more than a driver's license. 40 hours minimum times whatever the plane rental and instructor's rate is, and that's just for a single propeller powered craft. I read somewhere that people need 60 flight hours on average to get there. My guess is that the cost would finish up around the $10k mark.

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Tharmas
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Post by Tharmas » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:21 pm

Quite a few years ago I knew a skilled mechanic. He made an hourly wage, but it was a good one. He had a pilot’s license and owned one-third of a small piston engine plane, along with two co-owners. Splitting the costs three ways made it affordable. So there are ways of doing this without being a “rich man.”

Later he got married and had a kid, and sold his share. I don’t know if it was actually no longer affordable for him, or if he could simply no longer justify the expense.

No doubt, it is an expensive hobby. My point is though that costs are not necessarily completely prohibitive even for the average Joe. I suppose it depends on what you call "rich".

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Post by Worldtraveller » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:29 pm

[quote=""Roo St. Gallus""]So, it's like an expensive second car.

I suspect that there is a barrier to entry I'm not seeing.[/quote]
Except that's approximately annual cost, not one time.

Owning an aircraft, even a single engine piston aircraft, is a lifestyle choice. One doesn't have to be 'rich' in the sense of extravagant wealth, to own an aircraft of modest performance, but it does require a commitment.

I know people with more expensive hobbies (like motorcycle racing), and they aren't rich either, but most of their disposable income goes into those hobbies.

Basically, what Tharmas said. The guy that works on the other side of the wall from me is a part owner in a late 60s Bonanza.

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Post by Tubby » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:48 am

Would you believe a game lets you be the controller in the tower?

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speaking of simulators---

Post by Tubby » Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:08 pm

If you had told me there is an 18-wheeler simulation, I would have imagined something that would be only 1% as good as this.

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Post by Hermit » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:23 pm

[quote=""Tubby""]If you had told me there is an 18-wheeler simulation, I would have imagined something that would be only 1% as good as this.

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(View video on YouTube)[/quote]In terms of realism it does not rate well at all. To start with, the day begins with a safety check. A walk around the prime mover with a mallet to check all tyres are properly inflated , clearanace, tail, break, indicator and head lights are working would be the minimum. It's also a really good idea to run your eyes across the gauges, particularly the ones indicating air pressure. Also, how much fuel is in the tanks? Neglecting oil pressure could be expensive, but at least a lack of it will not kill you or other road users. If you have not driven that particular unit for some time you ought to check the dozen or so belts and pulleys under the bonnet, look if you can see any oil seeping out anywhere and make sure the tanks containing various fluids (coolant, engine gear box, differential oils, etc) are topped up. In a unit costing half a million dollars or more you'll usually find a checklist in a door pocket to help you with that.

To get into any distribution centre you are most likely to get stopped at a boom gate where you show some sort of paperwork to indicate you have a legitimate reason to enter. You don't just drive up to the trailer and hook up either. Someone will make sure you got the right one. Between the gate and the trailer will therefore be another office where your paperwork gets checked out again. Someone will meet you at the relevant dock and check your paperwork out for the third time, but that will only take seconds. On each occasion the prime mover's numberplate is checked and registered.

Now we come to hooking up. It involves a bit more than backing against the trailer. Before you test if the pin is securely locked to the turntable you need to connect two air lines and one electric cable from the mover to the trailer. Then you need to wind up the landing legs. It's also advisable to check tyres and lights on the trailer, especially if you're about to tow someone else's unit By the time you've done all that the air tanks have probably refilled after charging the trailer up, and you're good to go. You've already made the appropriate entries in your paper or electronic log book, haven't you? If the guard at the gatehouse is familiar with you the boom will probably be up before you get to it, and the guard will just take the trailer number down as you pass.

Oh, and crossing the double yellow unbroken line during that right hand turn was not only completely illegal - it was also totally unnecessary.

In short: stupid game. I stopped watching seven minutes into it.

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Post by Tubby » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:50 am

I stand corrected.
:D

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Post by Worldtraveller » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:03 pm

Of course, that same criticism could be applied to all flight sims as well. (and racing (car) sims, and ....)

Then again, when you crash in the sim, it doesn't hurt, either, so that's totally unrealistic. It needs to come with a baseball bat that's rigged to a force feedback joystick so you feel those crashes. :cool:

I suspect the typical aircraft walkaround is a bit more involved than an 18-wheeler. :rolleyes:

I need to get myself a new joystick (USB), my old one works fine, but I got it just before everything converted over to USB, and the adapters simply don't work. :(

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Post by Tubby » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:34 pm

[quote=""Worldtraveller""]Of course, that same criticism could be applied to all flight sims as well.
[/quote]

Is it true that they haven't made new flight simulator game software since the 1990s?

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Post by Worldtraveller » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:44 pm

[quote=""Tubby""]
Worldtraveller;675413 wrote:Of course, that same criticism could be applied to all flight sims as well.
Is it true that they haven't made new flight simulator game software since the 1990s?[/QUOTE]
Not at all. There are a number of reasonably modern flight sims. The great thing is that the hardware keeps getting better, so flight models improve as well as graphics. Many sims now come with VR support right out of the box.

Although one of the best flight sims (in terms of graphics, flight models, and variety of aircraft/vehicles) for the WWI and WWII era is free to download and play on your own or on a LAN with friends, but you have to subscribe to play online (with hundreds of 'friends').

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Post by Tubby » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:57 pm

[quote=""Worldtraveller""]Not at all. There are a number of reasonably modern flight sims. The great thing is that the hardware keeps getting better, so flight models improve as well as graphics. Many sims now come with VR support right out of the box.

Although one of the best flight sims (in terms of graphics, flight models, and variety of aircraft/vehicles) for the WWI and WWII era is free to download and play on your own or on a LAN with friends, but you have to subscribe to play online (with hundreds of 'friends').[/quote]

Software names, please?

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Post by Worldtraveller » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:59 pm

[quote=""Tubby""]
Worldtraveller;675415 wrote:Not at all. There are a number of reasonably modern flight sims. The great thing is that the hardware keeps getting better, so flight models improve as well as graphics. Many sims now come with VR support right out of the box.

Although one of the best flight sims (in terms of graphics, flight models, and variety of aircraft/vehicles) for the WWI and WWII era is free to download and play on your own or on a LAN with friends, but you have to subscribe to play online (with hundreds of 'friends').
Software names, please?[/QUOTE]

I was going to link to it, but I can't get to it from work. It's called Aces High, and it's made by HiTech...something. I used to fly in a squadron with a bunch of guys and had a great time doing it. I'll probably get back into it one of these days.

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Post by Tubby » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:28 pm


AnnieJoh
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Post by AnnieJoh » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:23 am

Adventurous!!

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