A New Conspiracy Theory

For serious discussion of politics, political news, policy, political theory and economics and events happening round the world
Arpie
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Post by Arpie » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:07 am

Gna: Perhaps they did it to help Donny? Make it look like they don't own him??

Arpie
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Post by Arpie » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:58 am

Keep waiting for Koy to respond to Cna's last post. Saddens me this interesting theory hasn't attained more traction. Another indication the boards are dying. :(

Koyaanisqatsi
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Post by Koyaanisqatsi » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:42 pm

[quote=""Gná""]Why is it in Russia's interest to disclose these meetings? [/quote]

As far as I can determine, they only announced (tweeted) about Naryshkin’s visit.
According to the article, it is to sow discord but why would they release information that could undermine Trump's position?
There could be any number of reasons, but my guess would be to show Trump (as they must do on a regular basis) who is actually in charge.

Think of it in terms of a loan shark that has come to collect the money you owe him. He doesn’t give a shit that you don’t have it or that his presence in your life causes you problems. And while logic may dictate that he leave you alone in order for you to get him his money as quickly as you are able, it’s really not about the money. You either pay him on Monday—by any means necessary—or he cuts your balls off as a lesson to everyone else and you in particular in regard to who has the power. And to remind you of that fact (and put appropriate pressure on you to that end), they guy who is going to cut your balls off is following you around town never more than ten feet away. Or the like.

Trump’s job—first and foremost—was to lift the sanctions imposed by Obama specifically in regard to the Ukraine (not in regard to the more recent sanctions imposed due to meddling in our election). Those sanctions stopped (and are still stopping) the $500 Billion deal between Exxon, BP and Rosneft to extract the newly discovered Russian oil fields that—once again—would make Russia surpass Saudi Arabia as the world’s largest oil distributor.

Think about that for one second. That is—quite literally—one of the biggest single changes in global power in all of human history and Obama/the US prevented it from happening (and then nearly all of Congress, in spite of all of the bullshit rhetoric going on currently). Putin doesn’t give a shit how it makes Trump look. Trump must remove those sanctions by any means necessary or his balls will be cut off. And it looks more and more like his balls are going to be cut off one way or the other, so Putin has nothing to lose by tightening his own grip before Mueller yanks them away.
Last edited by Koyaanisqatsi on Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:05 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Stupidity is not intellen

Arpie
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Post by Arpie » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:43 am

Another cogent insight, Koy. Thanks for the reply. Still need to do some further searches to totally fathom your assertions, but many ring true and I spend most of my time following the news.

Koyaanisqatsi
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Post by Koyaanisqatsi » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:41 pm

I think the key takeaways from all of this are the facts that Trump has been an asset (whether directly or indirectly) since the nineties, if not sooner and that the Steele dossier confirms the specific ties to Putin go back at least “five years,” which, at the time that was written would have meant back to 2011, deep into Obama’s first term, rounding the corner on his second term and coinciding with the year the deal with Exxon was made.

That deal was then destroyed by Obama’s sanctions in 2014, but of course prior to the sanctions put into place, there was a build up that must have started at least as early as 2013–both in regard to political saber rattling but also of course in the planning and preparation phase for the invasion of the Ukraine itself, that of course was known about by our intell/military long before it was revealed to the public—which also coincides with the year Trump inexplicably just decides to hold the Miss Universe pageant in Moscow; a costly, logistical nightmare under any other circumstances.

Indeed, there is no good reason why Trump would even think to try and hold the contest in Moscow unless there were ulterior motives, particularly considering the political anonymosity between the Obama administration and Putin’s.

And, as we know now, 2014 is also the year in which Putin begins the cyberwar against us for the 2016 election, which likewise means that the planning stage for such an operation had to start earlier as well so we’re back to 2013 once again (i.e., to the Miss Universe pageant as the most likely time/situation/contrivance to get Trump into Moscow where he could be properly and directly “handled” in regard to Putin’s plans).

If, as has been alleged, Russia simply wanted to fuck with the election in a general, disruptive sense, then why start a good two to three years prior? A general, hey let’s fuck things up kind of “attack” could easily be set up in a month or less. A coordinated attempt to put your own asset into the Oval Office, however—the boldest espionage move on the books and therefore something a person like Putin would absolutely try if it were even remotely possible—would take years to plan and lay the proper groundwork.

And lo and behold, that’s exactly what we’re seeing. The timeline fits perfectly. Putin must have known that other nations—ours in particular—were not happy with the idea that Russia (and thereby him) would become the biggest oil distributor in the world. Again, think of the shift in global power that would portend. Russia as the new Saudi Arabia.

And Putin in particular—due to his own specialized KGB experience and training—would know how valuable an asset Trump was the second he read Trump’s StB file circa 1992/93 and would absolutley have been keeping him on the hook, as it were, for exactly the right time. Whether any such time actually ever happened and for whatever use he could think of is not important (though clearly Trumps initial forays into politics were precursors and likely encouraged in various ways by Putin). It would have been second nature to Putin. This was exactly what he did in the KGB after all; groom Western assets for long-term activation/use when the opportunity arose.

Discovering that Russia can surpass Saudi Arabia as the ruler of the entire planet—and make no mistake, it is SA that rules the world; we and everyone else are merely middle management compared to he who controls the spice—well, again, look at the timeline. Even if Putin could not have foreseen something as obvious as economic sanctions as a means to prevent the cultivation of the newly discovered oil fields, he surely would have wanted his own puppet in the Oval at the time the rest of the world realized Russia’s ascendency and what that would entail, so the notion of putting his own asset (again, whether directly or indirectly controlled) would have been a priority starting back in 2011/2012 regardless of any worries over future sanctions or the like.

Saudi Arabia isn’t just going to turn its belly up, after all, and Putin would have expected the US to do SA’s bidding the second it was clear what the newly discovered oil fields would mean. Again, from a realpolitik understanding of the global power structure, this deal/oil remains as the biggest possible issue overriding all others. This is bigger than North Korean nukes; bigger than any ISIS nonsense; bigger than anything that has come before it, including the initial discovery of oil in Saudi Arabia. That changed humanity and the Industrial Age, but this shift in power—at a time when climate change has become a paramount, specie-killing imperative—means that Russia and Russia alone will control the course of human history for the foreseeable future.

It’s not just about billions of dollars that would flow directly into Putin’s pocket; it’s the dream of all tyrants, to be the ruler of the entire planet. And it’s within Putin’s grasp and something he would have immediately understood back when it was first discovered.
Last edited by Koyaanisqatsi on Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Stupidity is not intellen

Koyaanisqatsi
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Post by Koyaanisqatsi » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:12 pm

Damn my dyslexia :angry:
Stupidity is not intellen

Koyaanisqatsi
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Post by Koyaanisqatsi » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:06 pm

As predicted: Tillerson is out.

ETA: Tillerson Says UK Spy Poisoning ‘Clearly’ Came From Russia and

Russian Exile Nikolai Glushkov Found Dead At His London Home.

My guess is Putin has discovered who Steele’s contacts were and is cleaning house. And right at the time when the Republicans in the House of Reps prematurely ended their investigation proclaiming there was no collusion. We are no doubt witnessing a bloodless coup backed by the all mighty lust for oil (money).

Frankly, it’s a little surprising that Saudi Arabia and the rest of the oil industry that’s been in their pockets isn’t making any noticeable counter-moves. Indeed, I haven’t seen anything from Saudi Arabia in regard to any of this. The only thing reported is about Trump’s stand on Israel and/or Iran, but nothing about Russia or the Russian oil fields. The only other country ever mentioned is Qatar.

ETAETA: Well fuck me raw. Look what just happened last week: Saudi/Russia Oil Deal Leads To Bigger Russia Role In Middle East!
Saudi Arabia's oil production agreement with Russia was opportunistic at first, but it is now the foundation for a broader relationship that has the potential to reduce already waning U.S. influence in the Middle East.

Experts note that Russia has relationships with many powers in the Middle East and is the only one that can deal with everyone, including Israel, Iran, Syria and even Hamas and Hezbollah. The United States, on the other hand, is at odds with Syria and has increasingly chilly relations with Iran.

It was the United States, ironically, that drove Russia and Saudi Arabia together in the first place, with the surprising rise of an oil sector that is now producing record-high volumes, last seen in 1970.
Endgame. Now it all fits (and helps explain why the House suddenly announced the premature end of their investigation).

This makes the perfect end to this thread. Now Trump’s fate is entirely irrelevant. Putin found another way around the problem; Tillerson is free and clear; America is dead on the world stage.

If we don’t win back everything in Congress and then the Oval in 2020, that’s all she wrote. It will be nothing but vultures from the right picking over the carcas Trump will leave behind, while China/Russia/Saudi Arabia ascend, with the German-led EU surpassing us as upper management.

UK and US? Dead. We won’t even be able to compete with alternative energy sources. Our only hope will be cornering the market on AI and other such technology driven advancements.
Last edited by Koyaanisqatsi on Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:49 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Stupidity is not intellen

Gná
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Post by Gná » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:01 pm

[quote=""Koyaanisqatsi""]As predicted: Tillerson is out.[/quote]

Since this thread is titled 'a new conspiracy theory', is it merely coincidence that Tillerson's departure coincides with the inquiry into the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal and the death of Nikolai Glushkov? As we all know, there is a limited amount of attention for competing events in the modern news cycle.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ondon-home

Edit: Tillerson did not follow the White House line on the recent Russian poisoning/deaths saying "US secretary of state Rex Tillerson has been less reticent about apportioning blame, however. He said on Monday that the poisoning "clearly came from Russia," AP reported, and that it "will trigger a response."" Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/white-ho ... &r=US&IR=T
Last edited by Gná on Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back.

praxis
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Post by praxis » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:56 pm

An objective view:
The suspected nerve agent attack upon former Russian intelligence officer Sergei Skripal, which also affected his daughter in the English city of Salisbury last Sunday, has given rise to too much speculation, too much hysteria, and too little analysis or insight. It has provided ammunition for the Russophobic Western media to make accusations that it was another example of Russia in general and Vladimir Putin in particular disposing of a supposed enemy of the Kremlin.

As with the Mueller investigation into the alleged Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election there are accusations with varying degrees of wildness, but little or no actual evidence that would get past first base in any independent court of law.

First, what are the known facts, only some of which have been accurately reported in the western mainstream media? The victim (assuming it was a deliberate attack upon him and his daughter) was formerly a Colonel in the Russian military intelligence service (the GRU). This is the largest of the Russian intelligence agencies and, as with its western equivalents, has a wide variety of functions, of which “spying” is only one.

In the early 1990s Skripal was recruited by an MI6 agent Pablo Miller, whom the British media declined to name. Miller was an MI6 agent in Tallinn, the capital of Estonia. Miller’s main task was recruiting Russians to provide information about their country to the British. An interesting fact, possibly coincidental, was that the MI6 officer under diplomatic cover in Moscow at this time was Christopher Steele. Steele was later to become better known as the principal author of the infamous Trump dossier.
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/03/13/t ... poisoning/

plebian
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Post by plebian » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:12 am


praxis
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Post by praxis » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:48 am

[quote=""plebian""]https://www.newcoldwar.org/category/art ... ert-parry/

he does seem a bit pro-russia.[/quote]What does that mean?

Parry didn't write the piece.

Koyaanisqatsi
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Post by Koyaanisqatsi » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:24 pm

[quote=""praxis""]An objective view:[/quote]

Oxymoron.
the Russophobic Western media
Credibility destroyed.
to make accusations that it was another example of Russia in general and Vladimir Putin in particular disposing of a supposed enemy of the Kremlin.
Tell that to Tillerson.
As with the Mueller investigation into the alleged Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election there are accusations with varying degrees of wildness, but little or no actual evidence that would get past first base in any independent court of law.
Credibility further destroyed. First of all, he has no idea of the amount of evidence obtained and/or still undiscovered in Mueller’s investigation. It is standard procedure in ALL such investigations—all the way down to the local police level—to not publicly reveal what evidence has been collected and/or is still believed to exist until the investigation has concluded. That is precisely why the Dems in the House or so outraged by the Republicans suddenly (and for no legitimate reason) announcing the premature end of their investigation with multiple witnesses refusing to answer and numerous outstanding questions never addressed.

This is an oft-repeated Trump/Stone fallacy; asserting that because the investigation has not yet resulted in an indictment of Trump directly—iow, because the investigation is still open—it therefore means there is no evidence, which is the argument of a mob boss. “Because my investigation is still open, it means I’m innocent.”

But, of course, this time it’s qualified. No “actual” evidence “that would get past first base” in any “independent” court. The careful and deliberate use of such qualifiers proves that the author knows that there is, in fact, sufficient evidence and that it would indeed stand up in a court of law, so he must try to obfuscate that fact with shifting goalposts and insinuations of bias. What, after all, is an “independent” court of law? All courts in the US are supposed to be “independent,” so what court is he here disparaging as biased? Well, we know the answer to that, of course, but he pretty much states it directly here:
In any major criminal enquiry one of the basic questions the investigation asks is: who had the means, the motive and the opportunity? Framed in that light, the Russians come a distant fourth behind the other prime suspects; the U.S. and U.K. intelligence agencies themselves, and those elements of the deep state that sought to prevent Trump winning, and subsequently to undermine his presidency.
It is the court of the “deep state” that is somehow just so terrified of a Trump presidency—because, why again? He is a genius? No, he’s a moron. His own Secretary of State said that, not some shadow member of a deep state illuminati. Well, “fucking moron” is what he actually said. He’s a brilliant businessman? Nearly every one of his companies has gone bankrupt. He won’t play by the rules? What rules are those, exactly? The “establishment” rules? And they are, because he is lock-step in line with GOP “rules” (and/or Putin’s rules), while at the same time showing again and again that he doesn’t even know what rules are in general, let alone what the “deep state” rules are that he’s not following.

And the shit he IS doing has so far resulted in nothing but the destruction of America’s standing on the world stage (i.e., Putin’s rules). Baiting/encouraging North Korea has no endgame. Escalating Afghanistan and Iraq shows adherence to supposed “establishment/deep state” rules. Allowing (facilitating) Russia’s ascendency with China and now Saudi Arabia only pushes us out of the game, not further in. Where, exactly, is this mythical messiah that so terrifies our entire intelligence community that they would take such extraordinary steps as to unify against him—as far back as 2014, which is when the Russian cyberwar is said to have begun—and manufacture a “witch hunt” to bring him down because if they don’t....what? He’ll fuck his daughter or another porn star? He’ll seriously argue that we should arm teachers? TEACHERS ffs.

Back to your idiotic piece. As to getting “past first base,” this is a tacit acknowledgement that, at the very least, there is enough evidence to hit the ball (to keep it in metaphor), which is, of course, all that is required of an investigation. As the author concedes, it is then up to a court to determine how many bases that results in, which ironically also destroys the author’s own assumption of primacy in the same sentence.

In short, he can’t know the extent of the evidence that has been gathered, he concedes that sufficient evidence has already been gathered and then further concedes that only a court can determine how far that evidence will go.

Here he does it again next:
First, what are the known facts
Known to whom? Mueller, the only one that matters at this point? The author tells us:
only some of which have been accurately reported in the western mainstream media?
So, once again, credibility destroyed. He asks “what are the known facts” (conceding that there are still facts that those outside of the investigation do not yet know) and then once again tries to demonize and conflate “the western mainstream media,” yet in his careful wording we see, yet again, the same kinds of qualifying terms. “Only some of which have been accurately reported.”

Take out the obfuscations/qualifiers and he just said, “Some of the western mainstream media has accurately reported known facts.” Not exactly a groundbreaking revelation.

Next he finally gets to the relevant part (as it relates to my own speculation about ties to Steele):
An interesting fact, possibly coincidental, was that the MI6 officer under diplomatic cover in Moscow at this time was Christopher Steele. Steele was later to become better known as the principal author of the infamous Trump dossier.
And then he lays his own speculation down—which mirrors my own—but then spectacularly misses his own point:
The former British ambassador Craig Murray has suggested on his blog that a motive for the attempted murder of Skripal and his daughter was to further promote the anti-Russian hysteria that inflicts the Western media and the body politic.

That is certainly plausible, and it has certainly been one of the consequences, as the abysmal coverage of the ABC among other outlets makes clear. But an alternative hypothesis presents itself in the light of the above facts, and this hypothesis has not even been mentioned, let alone discussed by our major media.

My admittedly speculative hypothesis (but I would argue, not an unreasonable one) is that Skripal was likely involved in the production of the Steele dossier. He was therefore in a position to offer potentially very damaging information into the circumstances of the Steele dossier. As noted above, that particular narrative has not only spectacularly collapsed, but the revelations reflect very badly on, among others, the U.S. intelligence community, the FBI, the Democratic National Committee, the Obama White House and the Clinton campaign.
See what he did? He stuffed a great big straw man. He’s actually attacking Craig Murray’s position. Or, rather, his version of Murray’s position, which is that Skripal was killed to “promote the anti-Russian hysteria that inflicts the Western media and the body politic” and then goes on to knock over his own strawman.

The “particular narrative” of his own supposed theory—that Skripal was killed by the Russians because it was discovered that he was one of Steele’s contacts—is just swept under the rug with the assertion that it somehow “spectacularly collapsed” thanks to the strawman about Murray.

The author then goes on to ask “who benefits” from Skripal‘s death, ruling Russia to be “forth” in line for no legitimate reason and based entirely on his strawman that the only reason would be to sow distrust of Russia instead of his own theory. That Skipral was discovered to have been one of Steele’s contacts and that’s why he was targeted is the most logical reason to have him—and his daughter—killed in such a bold and horrendous manner; as an example to all who would dare cross Putin now (by testifying to Mueller) or in the future.

The author then relies on an argument of incredulity about the method of Skripal‘s attack; nerve agent, which he asserts would be difficult for a Russian assassin to smuggle in or otherwise get his hands on—in spite of the fact that the author also confirms that there is a nearby source for such an agent—and therefore it’s far more likely that Skripal was attacked as a “false flag” op; or, iow, by the nefarious “deep state.” Reboot “deep state” magical thinking here all under the guise of an argument from incredulity.

So, to cut to the chase, this author’s speculation is that Skripal was attacked by (presumably) the US intelligence community and/or the British intel community in order to throw more shade at Trump—because Trump is just the most brilliant, devastating leader the world has ever known so of course—and/or to throw shade at Putin; a man who is a known murderer and has used such horrific methods of assassination previously and who stands to gain control over the entire world’s oil distribution.

:hmm: I can’t figure this one out. Putin, the murdering tyrant ex-KGB officer inches away from global domination of oil using a method of assassination so horrific—and seemingly difficult to accomplish—as to terrify even the most seasoned of spies from ever crossing him, or MI6 just deciding out of the blue to murder a man (and his daughter and risking the lives of some twenty other innocent bystanders) in an horrific manner just to paint Saint Putin in a bad light that he has already painted for himself many times over.
Last edited by Koyaanisqatsi on Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:21 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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