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Old 20 Jan 2018, 06:15 PM   #682909 / #1
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Default Religious lies. Why do we knowingly accept them?

Religious lies. Why do we knowingly accept them?

People, I hope, are not foolish or gullible enough to really believe in the talking serpent and donkey of the bible nor the 72 virgins ot the Qur’an. I also hope their gullibility is not broad enough to have them swallow all the other supernatural ideas floated by religions. The ancients intelligently knew that nothing could be known of the supernatural.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Modern priests, preachers and imams ignore the unknowability of the supernatural constantly while lying to us about the Gods.

I do not want to believe that we are as gullible as some people seem to be.

Why then do you think we knowingly pay and suport priests, preachers and imams, perpetual liars in my view, to lie to us?

Regards
DL
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Old 20 Jan 2018, 09:56 PM   #682921 / #2
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Did you post this on the right forum?
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Old 20 Jan 2018, 09:59 PM   #682922 / #3
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Did you post this on the right forum?
I think so.

Where should I talk of religious lies if not in the religion part of this forum?

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Old 20 Jan 2018, 10:19 PM   #682923 / #4
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Did you post this on the right forum?
I think so.

Where should I talk of religious lies if not in the religion part of this forum?

Regards
DL
No, I mean the whole forum. Not too many fans of religious lies on SC, as a general rule.
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Old 21 Jan 2018, 05:38 AM   #682939 / #5
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Religious lies. Why do we knowingly accept them?
You mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies? If so, how common do you think this phenomenon is, and do you think it only happens in the religious sphere?
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Old 21 Jan 2018, 02:47 PM   #682961 / #6
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I know we are not the we that the OP means, but humans are really good at believing things that they want to be true. How else do you explain how the orange mess became president of the US? And then there's the old line from an old "Seinfeld" episode. "It's not a lie, if you believe it." I think that sums things up.
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Old 21 Jan 2018, 05:10 PM   #682973 / #7
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Did you post this on the right forum?
I think so.

Where should I talk of religious lies if not in the religion part of this forum?

Regards
DL
No, I mean the whole forum. Not too many fans of religious lies on SC, as a general rule.
Then my hope is that those here who see what I put might get some ideas to take to the more theist populated boards so as to correct their poor thinking.

Some of those have banned me just because of my avatar name even before I posted anything. If not, I would be doing my thing there.

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Old 21 Jan 2018, 05:14 PM   #682975 / #8
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Religious lies. Why do we knowingly accept them?
You mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies? If so, how common do you think this phenomenon is, and do you think it only happens in the religious sphere?
I think it also happens in the political sphere but those lies can be more easily refuted as most political systems use facts or distorted facts that can be questioned.

In religions, one cannot question what only exists behind a supernatural screen.

Even non-believers have accepted that religions have some value as they do not seem to be complaining about the tax shortfall that they must pay so that religions might keep their tax exemptions etc. that cause the shortfall that we all have to top up.

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DL
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Old 21 Jan 2018, 05:19 PM   #682976 / #9
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I know we are not the we that the OP means, but humans are really good at believing things that they want to be true. How else do you explain how the orange mess became president of the US? And then there's the old line from an old "Seinfeld" episode. "It's not a lie, if you believe it." I think that sums things up.
It does for sure.

We all have our little delusions about our reality, ( I am such a handsome guy), type of thing but to throw as much reality as theists throw away has shown to be quite harmful to society as a whole.

Ask any gay or woman who has been victimized by religious homophobia and misogyny thanks to a supernatural God and they will tell you that reality is where peoples minds should be and not in some supernatural believing realm.

Regards
DL
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Old 21 Jan 2018, 06:46 PM   #682982 / #10
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Religious lies. Why do we knowingly accept them?
You mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies? If so, how common do you think this phenomenon is, and do you think it only happens in the religious sphere?
I think it also happens in the political sphere but those lies can be more easily refuted as most political systems use facts or distorted facts that can be questioned.

In religions, one cannot question what only exists behind a supernatural screen.

Even non-believers have accepted that religions have some value as they do not seem to be complaining about the tax shortfall that they must pay so that religions might keep their tax exemptions etc. that cause the shortfall that we all have to top up.

Regards
DL
Oh, we complain.......
One of the responses to churches in the hurricane damage areas demanding federal help is that the churches should be taxed.
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Old 21 Jan 2018, 06:59 PM   #682983 / #11
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Religious lies. Why do we knowingly accept them?
You mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies? If so, how common do you think this phenomenon is, and do you think it only happens in the religious sphere?
I think it also happens in the political sphere but those lies can be more easily refuted as most political systems use facts or distorted facts that can be questioned.

In religions, one cannot question what only exists behind a supernatural screen.

Even non-believers have accepted that religions have some value as they do not seem to be complaining about the tax shortfall that they must pay so that religions might keep their tax exemptions etc. that cause the shortfall that we all have to top up.

Regards
DL
Oh, we complain.......
One of the responses to churches in the hurricane damage areas demanding federal help is that the churches should be taxed.
Why not? They are in the entertainment industry just as are cinemas that promote science fiction. They just do it without any science content.

All (legal) con games should be taxed, if not prosecuted outright for lying to people on a constant basis.

Regards
DL
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Old 21 Jan 2018, 09:46 PM   #682988 / #12
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I know we are not the we that the OP means, but humans are really good at believing things that they want to be true. How else do you explain how the orange mess became president of the US? And then there's the old line from an old "Seinfeld" episode. "It's not a lie, if you believe it." I think that sums things up.
It does for sure.

We all have our little delusions about our reality, ( I am such a handsome guy), type of thing but to throw as much reality as theists throw away has shown to be quite harmful to society as a whole.

Ask any gay or woman who has been victimized by religious homophobia and misogyny thanks to a supernatural God and they will tell you that reality is where peoples minds should be and not in some supernatural believing realm.

Regards
DL
Perhaps not any gay man.
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Old 21 Jan 2018, 11:07 PM   #682994 / #13
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Religious lies. Why do we knowingly accept them?
You mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies? If so, how common do you think this phenomenon is, and do you think it only happens in the religious sphere?
I think it also happens in the political sphere but those lies can be more easily refuted as most political systems use facts or distorted facts that can be questioned.

In religions, one cannot question what only exists behind a supernatural screen.

Even non-believers have accepted that religions have some value as they do not seem to be complaining about the tax shortfall that they must pay so that religions might keep their tax exemptions etc. that cause the shortfall that we all have to top up.
You appear to have missed the bit where I have asked you if you mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies.
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 06:50 PM   #683019 / #14
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I know we are not the we that the OP means, but humans are really good at believing things that they want to be true. How else do you explain how the orange mess became president of the US? And then there's the old line from an old "Seinfeld" episode. "It's not a lie, if you believe it." I think that sums things up.
It does for sure.

We all have our little delusions about our reality, ( I am such a handsome guy), type of thing but to throw as much reality as theists throw away has shown to be quite harmful to society as a whole.

Ask any gay or woman who has been victimized by religious homophobia and misogyny thanks to a supernatural God and they will tell you that reality is where peoples minds should be and not in some supernatural believing realm.

Regards
DL
Perhaps not any gay man.
Did you notice my, --- "Ask any gay or woman who has been victimized by religious homophobia".

Regards
DL
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 06:53 PM   #683020 / #15
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Religious lies. Why do we knowingly accept them?
You mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies? If so, how common do you think this phenomenon is, and do you think it only happens in the religious sphere?
I think it also happens in the political sphere but those lies can be more easily refuted as most political systems use facts or distorted facts that can be questioned.

In religions, one cannot question what only exists behind a supernatural screen.

Even non-believers have accepted that religions have some value as they do not seem to be complaining about the tax shortfall that they must pay so that religions might keep their tax exemptions etc. that cause the shortfall that we all have to top up.
You appear to have missed the bit where I have asked you if you mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies.
We all contribute to the Noble Lie that religions are worthy of respect, be we theists, or non-believers who ignore that their taxes make up the shortfall that religious exemptions cause.

If you are not complaining, you are accepting that Noble Lie perpetuated by governments.

Regards
DL
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 07:37 PM   #683024 / #16
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Did you notice my, --- "Ask any gay or woman who has been victimized by religious homophobia".

Regards
DL
If there is any gay man who has not experienced the same, then the world really has changed since I was growing up in it.
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 09:54 PM   #683043 / #17
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Did you notice my, --- "Ask any gay or woman who has been victimized by religious homophobia".

Regards
DL
If there is any gay man who has not experienced the same, then the world really has changed since I was growing up in it.
There is less and less discrimination and denigration of gays and women, in spite of religions hanging on to their evil homophobic and misogynous ways.

The better things get is proportional to how fast religions and their vile influence shrinks.

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DL
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Old 23 Jan 2018, 12:54 AM   #683047 / #18
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We all contribute to the Noble Lie that religions are worthy of respect, be we theists, or non-believers who ignore that their taxes make up the shortfall that religious exemptions cause.
"We all"? Maybe you do. I respect no religion. None. And I respect no person for adhering to one, though that does not mean I cannot respect them for other reasons. For instance, I was massively disappointed with Ayrton Senna when I saw him cross himself before the start of a race. I thought "what a primitive mind." Yet I respect him for his top level driving skills. He would have to be among the half dozen best competitors in the entire history of Formula One motor racing.

I am also resolutely opposed to anything - bar charitable institutions - having tax-exempt status. In my opinion the costs of building, maintaining and practising in places of worship of a supernatural entity, or doing missionary work and other forms of proselytising do not qualify. Bodies such as the Wikipedia do.

You still have not addressed my question. You know, the bit where I have asked you if you mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies.
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Old 23 Jan 2018, 08:40 PM   #683073 / #19
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We all contribute to the Noble Lie that religions are worthy of respect, be we theists, or non-believers who ignore that their taxes make up the shortfall that religious exemptions cause.
"We all"? Maybe you do. I respect no religion. None. And I respect no person for adhering to one, though that does not mean I cannot respect them for other reasons. For instance, I was massively disappointed with Ayrton Senna when I saw him cross himself before the start of a race. I thought "what a primitive mind." Yet I respect him for his top level driving skills. He would have to be among the half dozen best competitors in the entire history of Formula One motor racing.

I am also resolutely opposed to anything - bar charitable institutions - having tax-exempt status. In my opinion the costs of building, maintaining and practising in places of worship of a supernatural entity, or doing missionary work and other forms of proselytising do not qualify. Bodies such as the Wikipedia do.

You still have not addressed my question. You know, the bit where I have asked you if you mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies.
I dealt with your "we" well enough. I can amend it for the few who actively opposed paying the tax shortfall cause be religions.

Have you done so? If not, you are part of the we, IMO.

Ayrton Senna seems to have forgotten that Jesus said that praying should be done in private and not in public.

I agree with that as Ayrton Senna would be praying for evil to befall all those who are to compete against him so that he might gain the glory.

Rather self-centered that.

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Old 24 Jan 2018, 06:44 AM   #683094 / #20
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You still have not addressed my question. You know, the bit where I have asked you if you mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies.
I dealt with your "we" well enough. I can amend it for the few who actively opposed paying the tax shortfall cause be religions.

Have you done so? If not, you are part of the we, IMO.
Yes, I have and I still am active in that area, but that is not central to my previous post. Central to it is this: You still have not addressed my question. You know, the bit where I have asked you if you mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies.
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Old 25 Jan 2018, 01:15 PM   #683144 / #21
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There is only so much we can do. I support the Innocence Project, the local food bank, and Planned Parenthood. Removing the religious exemption from taxes is not high on my list at the moment.
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Old 25 Jan 2018, 04:42 PM   #683148 / #22
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You still have not addressed my question. You know, the bit where I have asked you if you mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies.
I dealt with your "we" well enough. I can amend it for the few who actively opposed paying the tax shortfall cause be religions.

Have you done so? If not, you are part of the we, IMO.
Yes, I have and I still am active in that area, but that is not central to my previous post. Central to it is this: You still have not addressed my question. You know, the bit where I have asked you if you mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies.
Ok. Let me amend the we to include exceptions like you. More I will not give.

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Old 25 Jan 2018, 04:44 PM   #683149 / #23
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There is only so much we can do. I support the Innocence Project, the local food bank, and Planned Parenthood. Removing the religious exemption from taxes is not high on my list at the moment.
That is fine, if you do not mind homophobic and misogynous religions using some of your tax dollars to push their immoral ideology and continuing to lie to their sheeple.

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Old 26 Jan 2018, 04:58 AM   #683170 / #24
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You still have not addressed my question. You know, the bit where I have asked you if you mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies.
I dealt with your "we" well enough. I can amend it for the few who actively opposed paying the tax shortfall cause be religions.

Have you done so? If not, you are part of the we, IMO.
Yes, I have and I still am active in that area, but that is not central to my previous post. Central to it is this: You still have not addressed my question. You know, the bit where I have asked you if you mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies.
Ok. Let me amend the we to include exceptions like you. More I will not give.
GIa, the question is not about "we". In your opening post you wrote: "Religious lies. Why do we knowingly accept them? "I want to know if you really mean that we accept lies even though we know they are lies? Do you think, for instance, that adherents of the Catholic Christian denomination believe their Church's dogmata even though they know they are lies? If not, what do you mean?
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Old 26 Jan 2018, 03:26 PM   #683181 / #25
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I dealt with your "we" well enough. I can amend it for the few who actively opposed paying the tax shortfall cause be religions.

Have you done so? If not, you are part of the we, IMO.
Yes, I have and I still am active in that area, but that is not central to my previous post. Central to it is this: You still have not addressed my question. You know, the bit where I have asked you if you mean we (however you mean by"we") accept ( whatever you mean by "accept") lies even though we know they are lies.
Ok. Let me amend the we to include exceptions like you. More I will not give.
GIa, the question is not about "we". In your opening post you wrote: "Religious lies. Why do we knowingly accept them? "I want to know if you really mean that we accept lies even though we know they are lies? Do you think, for instance, that adherents of the Catholic Christian denomination believe their Church's dogmata even though they know they are lies? If not, what do you mean?
I mean that, for example, if people who call themselves Christian truly believed the lies they have accepted, they would be fervent Christians. That does not seem to be the case.

For instance, in Finland, where about 95% claim to be Christian, only about 4% ever go to church even once a year.

Not quite what a true believer would do. No?

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