Friends of the Secular Café: Forums
Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain
Talk Freethought
Rational Skepticism Forum
EvC Forum: Evolution vs. Creation
Living Nonreligion Discussion Forum
The Round Table (RatPags)
Talk Rational!
Blogs
Blue Collar Atheist
Camels With Hammers
Ebonmuse: Daylight Atheism
Nontheist Nexus
The Re-Enlightenment
Rosa Rubicondior
The Skeptical Zone
Watching the Deniers
Others
Christianity Disproved
Count Me Out
Ebon Musings
Freethinker.co.uk
 
       

Go Back   Secular Café > Intellectual Debate and Discussion Forums > Religion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 28 May 2009, 02:27 PM   #39088 / #1
Danhalen
Fuckstick
 
Danhalen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
Posts: 351
Default Door to Door Evangelism

I had a visit from the local Jehovah's Waitresses a couple days ago. I used to let them in and have a chat, but I learned that they're hard to get rid of once you let them in. So I now just politely decline their literature because I am not interested in reading it. Anyway, this last visit was from two elderly black women, and the first question they asked me is if I was disturbed by the direction the world is headed. I responded that I was quite pleased with the progress of the world. They seemed a little shocked by this and offered a little protest to my idea. I wanted to point out to them that 50 years ago those two women would not have been able to walk through my city without getting stopped by the police for being black, but today they are seen as people walking down the street as opposed to "negroes not knowing where they belong." I say this because even as a child my city's nickname was Caucasian Falls, and I'm only 35.

Anyway, would it have been OK to point something like that out to them? Am I wrong for thinking we do not live in a world of moral decay? Am I wrong for sensing an overall moral awakening? Why do the religious tend to view the world in a moral quagmire, and why do they use it in the door to door sales pitch?
Danhalen is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 28 May 2009, 02:43 PM   #39097 / #2
tjakey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 685
Default

I like that one Danhalen, I say fire away.
tjakey is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 28 May 2009, 03:16 PM   #39108 / #3
Worldtraveller
Will work for fun.
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: S. OR.
Posts: 3,820
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danhalen
Anyway, would it have been OK to point something like that out to them?
Not just ok, but the right thing to do.
Quote:
Am I wrong for thinking we do not live in a world of moral decay?
No, because thier 'world of moral decay' is our world of increasingly equal rights for all people, regardless of color, sexual orientation, or gender. Overall crime rates have been consistently going down in most first world countries for a long time now, and with a few exceptions, the evils they rail against, like teen pregnancy and promiscuity, have also been decreasing.
Quote:
Am I wrong for sensing an overall moral awakening?
I think you are right, morally and factually.
Quote:
Why do the religious tend to view the world in a moral quagmire, and why do they use it in the door to door sales pitch?
Cuz that's all they got. It's all they'll ever have. The general message of the Abrahamic religions is negative (no matter how much they try to tell you it's good news). They stick to the same message they've been using all these years, in spite of the world continuing to move on (technologically, ethically, morally) without them.

Cheers
Worldtraveller is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 28 May 2009, 03:47 PM   #39120 / #4
Alex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,152
Default

Last summer a couple of amiable American guys came to my door, all the way from Utah apparently, with some idea of doing a spot of friendly "witnessing". I wasn't interested in listening to the Mormon message and they weren't persistent. So I invited them into my garden, gave them some refreshments, and spent about an hour discussing baseball with them.

That's my kind of door to door evangelism.
Alex is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 28 May 2009, 04:04 PM   #39124 / #5
Garnet
Sharp & Irregular
 
Garnet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 2,607
Default

Despite the problems we still face, I do think that we are not living in a world of total moral decay but rather one of moral improvement. I think if what things were like for my grandmother who in 1914 had a child out of wedlock and how that impacted the rest of her life and how my father was treated as a bastard.

In my grandmother's lifetime, women could not vote or own property. A woman who had a child out of wedlock was considered a slut and a whore while the father of the child was considered as someone who was basically "sowing his wild oats." Blacks, while free from slavery, were still ensnared in Jim Crow laws and treated as something less than human.

Sure, we've got a long row to hoe still. I'm just glad that I wasn't born in my grandmother's time.
__________________
I don't see any god up here. ~~ Yuri Gagarin, speaking from orbit in 1961
Garnet is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 28 May 2009, 05:32 PM   #39145 / #6
DMB
Old git
Beloved deceased
 
DMB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Mostly Switzerland
Posts: 41,484
Default

Yes. I remember the awful treatment of children born out of wedlock, and their mothers. Happily indulged in by the churches and believers, as in the film The Magdalene Sisters. Moreover, a lot of people ended up in horribly unhappy marriages because of unexpected pregnancies.

Moreover, when I started work my government payscale was less than what a man got, simply because I was a woman. When I tried to enter into a contract I was told that I would need my husband's signature (although I gave that one short shrift). I can remember all sorts of nasty little things like that. Before I was born and before WW2, my mother had to conceal the fact that she was married. Otherwise she would have been automatically fired from her job.

When I was young in England, the laws that sent Oscar Wilde to prison were still in force and gay men were always at risk.

Discrimination against non-white people and Jews was was very open, and people weren't ashamed of it.

It wasn't a nice world.
DMB is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 28 May 2009, 05:39 PM   #39147 / #7
Danhalen
Fuckstick
 
Danhalen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
Posts: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet View Post
Despite the problems we still face, I do think that we are not living in a world of total moral decay but rather one of moral improvement. I think if what things were like for my grandmother who in 1914 had a child out of wedlock and how that impacted the rest of her life and how my father was treated as a bastard.

In my grandmother's lifetime, women could not vote or own property. A woman who had a child out of wedlock was considered a slut and a whore while the father of the child was considered as someone who was basically "sowing his wild oats." Blacks, while free from slavery, were still ensnared in Jim Crow laws and treated as something less than human.

Sure, we've got a long row to hoe still. I'm just glad that I wasn't born in my grandmother's time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMB View Post
Yes. I remember the awful treatment of children born out of wedlock, and their mothers. Happily indulged in by the churches and believers, as in the film The Magdalene Sisters. Moreover, a lot of people ended up in horribly unhappy marriages because of unexpected pregnancies.

Moreover, when I started work my government payscale was less than what a man got, simply because I was a woman. When I tried to enter into a contract I was told that I would need my husband's signature (although I gave that one short shrift). I can remember all sorts of nasty little things like that. Before I was born and before WW2, my mother had to conceal the fact that she was married. Otherwise she would have been automatically fired from her job.

When I was young in England, the laws that sent Oscar Wilde to prison were still in force and gay men were always at risk.

Discrimination against non-white people and Jews was was very open, and people weren't ashamed of it.

It wasn't a nice world.
I guess we really are living in a world of moral decay when the blacks, Jews and women no longer know their place. Ahhh...
... the good ole days.
Danhalen is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 28 May 2009, 05:54 PM   #39151 / #8
reddhedd
Ma'am
Smack the Rabbit Champion
 
reddhedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: down south
Posts: 759
Default

Quote:
When I was young in England, the laws that sent Oscar Wilde to prison were still in force and gay men were always at risk.

Discrimination against non-white people and Jews was was very open, and people weren't ashamed of it.

It wasn't a nice world.

So true...we've eradicated some diseases; families who once saw more than half of their children die now see most, if not all, of them survive to adulthood.
We can predict many natural phenomena to allow people to prepare for disasters, such as hurricanes, some earthquakes, etc, and we're getting better all the time...not to mention our disaster relief is usually rapid and effective (with the exception of N. Orleans).

In western culture, women and girl children are commonly valued as people. We can vote, decide whether and whom to marry and/or bear children, hold jobs, go into politics, become scientists, or engineers, doctors and lawyers...hell, we can even wear pants whenever we want!

Blacks, white, m. easterners, asians, etc. live side by side on the same street and shop in the same stores, use the same restrooms, drink from the same fountain, swim in the same pools, etc and no one bats an eye...except for the occasional aged person who wasn't brought up right.


Life's not perfect, but the contrast between now and 40 years ago, much less 100 years ago, is dramatic and positive.

http://tinyurl.com/ddxmt7
reddhedd is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 28 May 2009, 06:01 PM   #39155 / #9
Monad
PhH
 
Monad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Leeds, UK
Posts: 2,755
Default

Last time I had some JH's I was positively welcoming - inviting them in warmly as I told them I was just about to start a Black Mass and needed someone to hold down the chicken and goat. They didn't seem to want to take me up on that though.
Monad is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 28 May 2009, 06:31 PM   #39162 / #10
Tangiellis
Disturbia
 
Tangiellis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Springfield, MA
Posts: 146
Default

I'm usually quite open with Witnesses and Mormons. I tell them up front that they won't change my mind, but that do relish a good debate. I've established some interesting friendships that way. Once i even got a couple of Mormons to let me give them a Tarot card reading. That was fun. Others mostly would come in and we would discuss religion for about an hour or so, usually under pleasant terms.

My husband, an atheist, found it humorous that he never knew what religious person would be in his living room when he got home or whether they would be charmed or livid when they left. Those were good times. He still wonders how I got the Mormons to get that reading.
__________________
On the flipside of divorce...
Tangiellis is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 28 May 2009, 06:37 PM   #39163 / #11
Tangiellis
Disturbia
 
Tangiellis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Springfield, MA
Posts: 146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danhalen View Post
Anyway, would it have been OK to point something like that out to them? Am I wrong for thinking we do not live in a world of moral decay? Am I wrong for sensing an overall moral awakening? Why do the religious tend to view the world in a moral quagmire, and why do they use it in the door to door sales pitch?
While I am certainly not a door-to-door religious sales person, I am not satifised with the current state of our world. While I do see many things that have progressed greatly, I also see things that have changed to the point of ridiculousness.

For example, the kids are so buffered from reality and spoiled to crap that it's not even funny. Parents don't want the kids to actually get dirty or really even play like we did when we were kids. Don't get me started on school policies, work policies, etc. Or how we are so interconnected now, but can't have actual real connections with people in the RW outside of the Net. The levels of corruption and greed have more global consequences than they did before. Corporations weren't the monolithic entities that they are now, like octopuses that you can only fight a single tentacle. We have the capability to destroy so much more. I could go on.

I'm not saying that the world is going to hell in a hand-basket. I'm just saying that years down the road, folks will look back and think the same things about where we are now as well.
Tangiellis is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 28 May 2009, 08:19 PM   #39181 / #12
reddhedd
Ma'am
Smack the Rabbit Champion
 
reddhedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: down south
Posts: 759
Default

Tangiellis,
You're right in that this isn't the time to sit back and do nothing...there are may things that need to improve. But it's not as dire, hopeless and bleak as the end-of-days-ers would like to believe, or have others believe.

Regarding kids buffered from reality..you might find this interesting.
http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/
reddhedd is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 29 May 2009, 12:05 AM   #39224 / #13
sohy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 10,937
Default

Yup. Gay people can walk hand in hand out in the open and there is even the possibility that gay marriage will be nationally legalized in the US within the next few years. Oh. Wait a minute. I think that's what scaring all the religious nuts.

I think there is a lot of moral decay when it comes to corrupt governments, excessively greedy corporations, and religious extremism. The world isn't such a pretty picture these days. It's just different. Remember the time when we actually thought there would be nuclear disarmament?
sohy is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 29 May 2009, 01:11 AM   #39250 / #14
Tangiellis
Disturbia
 
Tangiellis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Springfield, MA
Posts: 146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddhedd View Post
Tangiellis,
You're right in that this isn't the time to sit back and do nothing...there are may things that need to improve. But it's not as dire, hopeless and bleak as the end-of-days-ers would like to believe, or have others believe.
I agree. The world is not ending in 2012, etc. lol.
Quote:
Regarding kids buffered from reality..you might find this interesting.
http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/
I agree with a lot of this. Thanks for the link. I've had a couple of people appalled that I let my kids play outside in the backyard without my physically being out there. They are 6 and 3. As long as I'm by the window, we talk back and forth to each other anyway while they dig in the dirt for two hours.

When I was my oldest son's age, I was walking him from kindergarten and letting myself in the house on my own. I don't get it.
Tangiellis is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 29 May 2009, 02:34 PM   #39349 / #15
Lugubert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 545
Default

In ten years at this address, I've had three YW calls. The first couple was an oldish lady, perhaps some 15 years younger than me, plus a girl half my age, who could have been very attractive after some thorough makeover. I tried to discuss in a way that would possible give the kid some food for thought, but after a quarter of an hour I got impatient with the speaker's lack of knowledge of even their own tenets and generally of the Bible.

A few weeks later, two guys turned up. Again, one silent. But the guy who spoke was quite well read and in formed, and we had a fairly long and pleasant discussion standing at the open door. Again, I was too busy to invite them for a conversation where I for example could use my library and the 'net for arms. I sure could survive worse fates than meeting that guy again for some serious discussions.

Long intermission.

The day before yesterday, two girls called. Early twenties I suppose, but not interesting enough in any way to spend time on. In one sweeping sentence I told them that I've been studying Bible Hebrew and OT exegesis for sufficiently many universty semesters to be convinced that their beliefs are not founded on the words of the Bible and, in any other way, rather crazy. Rounding off with telling them that I'm an atheist, I said a sufficiently friendly goodbye and shut the door to return to tending my record-breaking head cold.
Lugubert is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 01 Jun 2009, 07:12 AM   #39805 / #16
Valheru
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,995
Default

I tell them to fuck off. No, seriously. Just like that.
Valheru is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 01 Jun 2009, 10:37 AM   #39813 / #17
Ray Moscow
Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
Ray Moscow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 8,903
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valheru View Post
I tell them to fuck off. No, seriously. Just like that.
The past couple of times the JW's caught me at a busy time, and I just told them "not interested at all". Am I sure? "Yes, completely."
Ray Moscow is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 01 Jun 2009, 11:05 AM   #39818 / #18
SallyAnne
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 775
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danhalen View Post
I had a visit from the local Jehovah's Waitresses a couple days ago. I used to let them in and have a chat, but I learned that they're hard to get rid of once you let them in. So I now just politely decline their literature because I am not interested in reading it. Anyway, this last visit was from two elderly black women, and the first question they asked me is if I was disturbed by the direction the world is headed. I responded that I was quite pleased with the progress of the world. They seemed a little shocked by this and offered a little protest to my idea. I wanted to point out to them that 50 years ago those two women would not have been able to walk through my city without getting stopped by the police for being black, but today they are seen as people walking down the street as opposed to "negroes not knowing where they belong." I say this because even as a child my city's nickname was Caucasian Falls, and I'm only 35.

Anyway, would it have been OK to point something like that out to them? Am I wrong for thinking we do not live in a world of moral decay? Am I wrong for sensing an overall moral awakening? Why do the religious tend to view the world in a moral quagmire, and why do they use it in the door to door sales pitch?


Wow, what a great post.

I invite them in, allow to them to make their pitch, and then I share the Gospel with them. I make tea, offer biscuits, and then we both whip out our Bibles (their own and my NASB version) and commence to disagree. We don't ever come to agreement, they want to leave and I say feel welcome to stop by again and they say they will.

They never do come back.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHpuTGGRCbY

Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil, for You are with me...
SallyAnne is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 01 Jun 2009, 12:36 PM   #39820 / #19
Criada
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 91
Default

I was out the other day and JWs kept my kids (13, 10 and 9) talking ion the doorstep, having been told that neither parent was available, and big sister was busy studying.
I don't mind talking to them.. in fact I quite enjoy wasting their time... but it seems immoral to be asking kids what they think will happen to them when they die!
My 13 year old son eventually told them that he didn't want to join a cult and shut the door on them.
I am sure they should have some kind of rule about that, though.
Criada is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 01 Jun 2009, 02:09 PM   #39830 / #20
Christina
.
 
Christina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: California
Posts: 6,757
Default

We weren't allowed to open the door for them as a kid when my mom was at work because they were strangers. That got us off the hook.

I came home one day about a year or so ago and the gate was open, my blind dog was wandering around lost and their pamphlets were blowing all over my property. I was furious because to get to my front door you have to drive past the 'No Soliciting' signs at the very end of the driveway, come all the way in, open the gate and walk all the way through the gardens up to the front door. That's a lot of trespassing. I tried to call them but the litterbugs for Jesus never answered and they didn't even have an answering machine. I was so tempted to go dump a bag of paper on their lawn and see how they liked it. Now that I'm home I wish they would come back so that I could have some fun with them but so many people called the cops on them for trespassing that they'll never come back up here. We take our privacy very seriously around here and we don't even want god showing up without calling first.
Christina is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 01 Jun 2009, 02:16 PM   #39835 / #21
Gooch's Dad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 870
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
Last summer a couple of amiable American guys came to my door, all the way from Utah apparently, with some idea of doing a spot of friendly "witnessing". I wasn't interested in listening to the Mormon message and they weren't persistent. So I invited them into my garden, gave them some refreshments, and spent about an hour discussing baseball with them.

That's my kind of door to door evangelism.
Alex wins the thread! I like this kind of story.
Gooch's Dad is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 01 Jun 2009, 06:31 PM   #39893 / #22
MrFungus420
Legend in my own mind
 
MrFungus420's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Midland, MI, USA
Posts: 1,267
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christina View Post
We weren't allowed to open the door for them as a kid when my mom was at work because they were strangers. That got us off the hook.

I came home one day about a year or so ago and the gate was open, my blind dog was wandering around lost and their pamphlets were blowing all over my property. I was furious because to get to my front door you have to drive past the 'No Soliciting' signs at the very end of the driveway, come all the way in, open the gate and walk all the way through the gardens up to the front door. That's a lot of trespassing. I tried to call them but the litterbugs for Jesus never answered and they didn't even have an answering machine. I was so tempted to go dump a bag of paper on their lawn and see how they liked it. Now that I'm home I wish they would come back so that I could have some fun with them but so many people called the cops on them for trespassing that they'll never come back up here. We take our privacy very seriously around here and we don't even want god showing up without calling first.
Go to the local Kingdom Hall during one of their services and interrupt it to tell the entire congregation that you are upset that they ignored the sign, left the gate open and, thereby allowed your dog to get loose.

You might even be polite and raise your hand. Personally, I'd just walk in and while walking up the aisle start in a loud voice, "Excuse me! I want to let you know..."
__________________
If there is a God, why did he make me an atheist? That was his first mistake.
-Ricky Gervais
MrFungus420 is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 01 Jun 2009, 11:45 PM   #39938 / #23
sohy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 10,937
Default

I think they've given up on me. The last time I had a couple of Mormons come to the door was several years ago. We have a Mormon church a few blocks from here. I told them politely that I was an atheist and then wished them a happy life. I think they must have put the word out on me. Not a single Mormon, JW or other assorted zealot has bothered me since that day. I like it that way.
sohy is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 02 Jun 2009, 12:27 AM   #39946 / #24
Garnet
Sharp & Irregular
 
Garnet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 2,607
Default

We don't get visits here.


Maybe the sign on our door has something to do with it.

*wicked evil grin*
Garnet is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 02 Jun 2009, 01:44 AM   #39956 / #25
Jobar
Zen Hedonist
Admin; Mod: Religion, The Smoking Section
 
Jobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 26,147
Default

My door knocker does that.

Jobar is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Secular Café > Intellectual Debate and Discussion Forums > Religion

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coming in April: Internet Evangelism Day! phands Religion 8 08 Mar 2013 12:05 PM
Evangelism in Schools neilstone40 Religion 57 09 Nov 2011 04:56 PM
Someone left the door open. Worldtraveller Introductions 8 02 Mar 2009 09:25 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
 
Ocean Zero by vBSkins.com | Customised by Antechinus