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Old 27 Jul 2017, 03:08 AM   #675099 / #1
Jobar
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Default Interesting web site- provethebible

http://www.provethebible.net/index.htm

I happened across this site, oddly enough, while looking for a Robert Ingersoll quote-
Quote:
"We want one fact. We beg at the doors of your churches for just one little fact. We pass our hats along your pews and under your pulpits and implore you for just one fact."
The first site listed when I googled 'one fact Ingersoll' was ptb.

I find it rather interesting because on many of the pages of his fairly large and well indexed site, Bill, the author, quotes sayings from a great number of unbelievers both ancient and modern. Not something I've ever seen before. A few examples-

Quote:
"The idea that a good God would send people to a burning hell is utterly damnable to me. The ravings of insanity! Superstition gone to seed! I don't want to have anything to do with such a God."

- Luther Burbank
That heads up an attempt to justify the existence of Hell.

Quote:

"Religion is nothing more than a substitute for a malfunctioning brain."

- Gene Roddenberry
Quote:

"Religion is the opiate of the masses."

- Karl Marx
Quote:

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people's business."

- Jesse Ventura
Those three accompany his definitions of basic terms- religion, worship, faith, trust.

Yet, despite his frequent use of skeptical quotations, Bill seems to be a Biblical literalist, and even a creationist! He has a number of discourses on evolution- see the index page, that first link.

I'd really like to get this fellow to come here and discuss his beliefs. He seems far more intelligent and widely read than the great majority of believers, from his website at least. I may decide to e-mail him; he provides an address. Any opinions on that?
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 03:51 AM   #675104 / #2
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Just from a quick glance at the first link, I can see he paid enough attention in school to write in literate fashion. I wouldn't mind seeing the fellow here.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 10:11 AM   #675109 / #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobar View Post
I'd really like to get this fellow to come here and discuss his beliefs. He seems far more intelligent and widely read than the great majority of believers, from his website at least. I may decide to e-mail him; he provides an address. Any opinions on that?
Please do send him an invitation.

The site looks well structured and arguments clearly expostulated. Its author is an architect, so I expect him to be quite competent at clinically dissecting issues. He'd make a pleasant change in comparison to the last two theists who became members of this forum in order to partake in our discussions.

One thing that worries me is that Bill's site has not been updated since 2011. It seems unlikely for someone who has put so much work into it to just abandon the project. Perhaps the fees have been paid several years in advance and its author has died.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 07:18 PM   #675125 / #4
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Perhaps the fees have been paid several years in advance and its author has died.
I hope you are not assuming that this would mean he can't still be contacted.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 07:24 PM   #675126 / #5
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Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
Quote:
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Perhaps the fees have been paid several years in advance and its author has died.
I hope you are not assuming that this would mean he can't still be contacted.
Of course I'm not. A quarter of US citizens apparently chat with God. One of them could ask him to pass the message on that we want to discuss stuff with him.

Alternately, we can resort to using a Ouija board.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 07:31 PM   #675127 / #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit View Post
Perhaps the fees have been paid several years in advance and its author has died.
I hope you are not assuming that this would mean he can't still be contacted.
Of course I'm not. A quarter of US citizens apparently chat with God. One of them could ask him to pass the message on that we want to discuss stuff with him.

Alternately, we can resort to using a Ouija board.
Yes, and if it works, we contact James Randi, and you, me, Tubby and Jobar split the million dollars 4 ways equally. Which I make to be $250,000 each, not counting the immaterial dollars.

Last edited by ruby sparks; 27 Jul 2017 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 07:39 PM   #675128 / #7
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Its author is an architect, so I expect him to be quite competent at clinically dissecting issues.
'Architectural designer', which is sometimes what people who want people to refer to them as architects tend to call themselves when they're not actually architects.

[/pedantry]

Probably a bit harsh on him, since he didn't call himself an architect.

And in any case there are many dim architects and many bright architectural designers.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 08:02 PM   #675131 / #8
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Quote:
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Quote:
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Its author is an architect, so I expect him to be quite competent at clinically dissecting issues.
'Architectural designer', which is what people who want people to refer to them as architects tend to call themselves when they're not actually architects.

[/pedantry]
I do not consider that a pedantic distinction. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 01:02 PM   #675144 / #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit View Post
Perhaps the fees have been paid several years in advance and its author has died.
I hope you are not assuming that this would mean he can't still be contacted.
Of course I'm not. A quarter of US citizens apparently chat with God. One of them could ask him to pass the message on that we want to discuss stuff with him.

Alternately, we can resort to using a Ouija board.
If an e-mail gets no response, I'll leave trying that method to you.

I'll write him sometime this weekend.
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Old 01 Aug 2017, 12:24 AM   #675215 / #10
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I just mailed Bill this.

Quote:
Hello, Bill. My name is John Barnes, known as Jobar on the net.

A few days ago I was searching for a quote from Robert Ingersoll, the famous 19th-century statesman and freethinker. Your site, provethebible, was the first one returned.

When I went to it, I was bemused to find that it was a Christian site- but many of the pages there contained numerous quotes from famous skeptics, atheists and freethinkers, ancient and modern. I've been discussing religion online since the early nineties, practically since the internet began; but I can't recall ever seeing a website put up by believers that was willing to present commentary from unbelievers the way yours does.

I quite approve. In fact, because of this I'd like to extend to you an invitation; I am an administrator at the Secular Café, secularcafe.org, a small discussion board which has been going since 2009. Most of our members are atheists or agnostics, but we also welcome believers who are willing to debate with those who disbelieve. We'd expect you to testify to us, as long as you accept that we will testify *back*!

I'm setting up an identity for you at the Café; BillPTB, password {redacted}. If you come visit, we'll change that to whatever you prefer. I hope you are willing to come check us out; there's a thread about your site already started, at https://secularcafe.org/showthread.php?t=38939. Several of our regular posters, and I, want to hear your rationale for adding all those skeptical quotes!

John.
I'm about to go activate that ID; let's hope Bill is open to talking religion with us heathens.
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Old 30 Aug 2017, 06:41 PM   #676342 / #11
Tubby
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I guess we didn't make the grade.
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Old 31 Aug 2017, 02:14 AM   #676356 / #12
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I guess we didn't make the grade.
As I mentioned, Bill's site has not been updated since 2011, so perhaps...

I do wonder who keeps his site registered if Bill is dead, though.
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Old 08 Sep 2017, 12:53 PM   #676539 / #13
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Well, if you dig into the site a little more, I'm not so sure about the intelligence level. Granted, we can't all be experts on everything, but why would you include things about which one is so clearly ignorant? For example:

Quote:
Darwin was concerned about the lack of evidence for his conjectures and hoped confirming evidence would eventually be found. After well over a century of searching for the first of what was expected to be billions and billions of transitional specimens, not one has been found.
The bolded section above is a straight up falsehood. No question about it. The fossil record has an abundance of transitional forms. When you think about it, nearly every fossil is a transitional form.

Further, you have sections like this which tends to imply that Genesis provides a "perfect parallel" to the chronology of "planet formation." This is ridiculous on several levels, because Genesis cannot be taken literally as it implies there was light before the sun, and that the moon is a light source, which of course, it isn't. Genesis is clearly allegory, and this site is taking it literally.
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