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Old 08 Nov 2017, 04:33 AM   #679571 / #1
justme
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Default If Germany would have won the great war.

I have sometimes wondered just what kind of world would we be looking at if Germany would have won the first world war.

Would the ottoman empire had crumbled and the West enabled to go in and carve out the MiddleEast?

Would there have been a second world war and the holocost that percipitated the emergance of the Israeli state?

Would Japan have been so dominant in the Pacific, seeing that England would, most likely not have had the lions share of her military tied down fight Hitler and would have been able to confront Japan in the Pacific?

Would the world have been introduced to nuclear power by way of a bomb and be more productive in using it's power for peacful purposes?

Would the US or Russia ever become superpowers and would the cold war ever existed?

Would there have been a Europian union headed by Germany in the 1920's instead of today?
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Old 09 Nov 2017, 02:05 AM   #679721 / #2
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I have sometimes wondered just what kind of world would we be looking at if Germany would have won the first world war.

Would the ottoman empire had crumbled and the West enabled to go in and carve out the MiddleEast?
With Britain and France defeated, they would not have been in much of a position to divide the Middle East between themselves. I think that the Ottoman Empire would have slowly disintegrated.

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Would there have been a second world war
Germany would not have been defeated in the first one, meaning that the political myth would never have emerged of Germany having been stabbed in the back by criminals and traitors. If anything, some Germans might have grumbled that Germany did not get enough out of the war.

If Germany had won, then Germany would have turned Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia into German colonies, with Austria doing likewise for western Ukraine.

This would have led to more strife, but if it led to World War II, it would have started that war in the fashion of World War I. That war was started by a nationalist terrorist's actions provoking a strong response that in turn dragged in other nations.

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and the holocost that percipitated the emergance of the Israeli state?
Zionists had been settling in Israel for a half-century before that war, and by WWII, a sizable population had settled there. After WWI, Britain ended up with Palestine, and Zionists pointed out to Britain's leaders that Palestine was the ancestral home of the Jewish people, and that they would like to return to there. But as Jewish settlers moved there, the Arabs objected to these intruders, and Britain tried to make both sides happy -- and pleased neither side.

If the Ottomans were still in charge, they might not have cared much, as long as the Zionists paid their taxes. But eventually, the Zionists may have revolted against Ottoman rule, creating the State of Israel.

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Would Japan have been so dominant in the Pacific, seeing that England would, most likely not have had the lions share of her military tied down fight Hitler and would have been able to confront Japan in the Pacific?
It depends on how much Japan provokes Britain -- or how little. I'm thinking about something like Pearl Harbor, which was a huge provocation.

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Would the world have been introduced to nuclear power by way of a bomb and be more productive in using it's power for peacful purposes?
Without big wars, nuclear reactors would likely have been built before nuclear bombs.

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Would the US or Russia ever become superpowers and would the cold war ever existed?
The US would still have been a big power, but I'm not sure about Russia.

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Would there have been a Europian union headed by Germany in the 1920's instead of today?
With them winning a war, the losers would not have liked the idea, unless Germany became very magnanimous about victory.
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Old 09 Nov 2017, 05:47 AM   #679729 / #3
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The German plan for a post-USSR Europe meant meant major genocide in the East. Google "Germany WWII, hunger plan. The East was to be depopulated and some racial desirables would be left. Their education would be bare minimum, as Himmler put it, able to sign their name, count to 500 and read a street sign. And no more. The remaining population would be used as agricultural laborers, miners and lumber jacks and not much more. Hitler in his Table Talk stated that it would take Germany a century to absorb all of Russia. Germans would be the Spartans to the Asian's helots. The Helots would not be able to build aircraft, tanks or weapons. The Germans would live in segregated German only cities with few non-Germans.

Had they won over Britain, there were plans to export many British men to Germany as slave labor. Large parts of France were to become parts of Greater Germany.

Had they won and followed Hitler's big plans, it would have been a rather different world. As for America, Germany had plans had they won the war to build a massive fleet of ships. And jet powered aircraft that could reach America and drop atomic bombs on East Coast cities.

The first such bomber, the Horton H.XVIII was scheduled to roll off the assembly lines in November 1945.

Hitler was set on genocide and ethnic cleansing on a scale almost unimaginable today. Hitler stated that after Russia had been defeated and his plans were implemented there, "Perhaps Africa".
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Old 09 Nov 2017, 07:22 AM   #679731 / #4
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The German plan for a post-USSR Europe meant meant major genocide in the East. Google "Germany WWII, hunger plan. The East was to be depopulated and some racial desirables would be left. Their education would be bare minimum, as Himmler put it, able to sign their name, count to 500 and read a street sign. And no more. The remaining population would be used as agricultural laborers, miners and lumber jacks and not much more. Hitler in his Table Talk stated that it would take Germany a century to absorb all of Russia. Germans would be the Spartans to the Asian's helots. The Helots would not be able to build aircraft, tanks or weapons. The Germans would live in segregated German only cities with few non-Germans.

Had they won over Britain, there were plans to export many British men to Germany as slave labor. Large parts of France were to become parts of Greater Germany.

Had they won and followed Hitler's big plans, it would have been a rather different world. As for America, Germany had plans had they won the war to build a massive fleet of ships. And jet powered aircraft that could reach America and drop atomic bombs on East Coast cities.

The first such bomber, the Horton H.XVIII was scheduled to roll off the assembly lines in November 1945.

Hitler was set on genocide and ethnic cleansing on a scale almost unimaginable today. Hitler stated that after Russia had been defeated and his plans were implemented there, "Perhaps Africa".
Um, we are talking about World War I, not II.
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Old 09 Nov 2017, 02:54 PM   #679767 / #5
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Let 's move this to the WW I subforum.
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Old 09 Nov 2017, 03:18 PM   #679769 / #6
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If Germany had won, it would have likely been early in the war, when they still had the momentum of attack; I suspect the war would have been nowhere near as bloody and protracted.

But I don't know if it would have meant that no second war was fought a generation later. It might well have been the French and English who were then the aggressors, though.

I feel sure that there would still have been a war in the Pacific before mid-century; the Japanese were determined to build an empire for themselves, and that was going to happen regardless of the European situation.
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Old 11 Nov 2017, 06:19 AM   #679930 / #7
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I did read an alternate history novel where the Kaiser grew a backbone over the invasion of Belgium and got it canceled. England stayed neutral. Germany held off the French in the west while she beat the crap out of the Russians even worse than happened historically.
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Old 11 Nov 2017, 07:25 PM   #679954 / #8
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Slavs would have been wiped out. Austria Hungary empire would have expanded, potentially. As someone mentioned, the entirety of Baltic & Balkan territory would have been annexed.

England would have remained neutral perhaps, simply because it wouldn't be able to contest, yet are powerful enough with Commonwealth allies. Unsure about France and Belgium.
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Old 12 Nov 2017, 11:35 PM   #680058 / #9
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Slavs would have been wiped out. Austria Hungary empire would have expanded, potentially. As someone mentioned, the entirety of Baltic & Balkan territory would have been annexed.
(Wikipedia)File:Mitteleuropa ENG wielgórski.PNG, at (Wikipedia)Mitteleuropa

Turning Poland and the Baltic States into German-dominated puppet states. I'd mentioned that earlier, and I'd noted that it has the potential to cause more strife. Like Russia "rescuing" Poland.
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Old 13 Nov 2017, 12:11 AM   #680062 / #10
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In Harry Turtledove's timeline 191 series (about 10 books) The South had won the US civil war and was allied with the allies, while the US was a German ally. The US and Central powers won. This led to a rise in Fascism in France and the UK rather than Germany and Italy. The Russian empire still existed and allied with UK/France/Confederacy. A sergeant from the CSA took the Hitler role, but they were called The Freedom party rather than Nazis. Also, blacks were the main victims, not Jews (his equivalent to Goebbels was a Jew.) The war ended after atoms bombs were dropped on 2 cities in England, Paris and Petrograd. The British managed to drop one on a German city (and had a bomber shot down causing one to detonate in rural Belgium.) The CSA managed to set one off on the ground outside Philadelphia (they had no effective air force anymore.) England made peach, Russia and France surrendered. The Hitler equivalent was shot by a black soldier and the CSA surrrendered, those who took part in "population reductions" were hung and the CSA was occupied to be forcibly brought back to the US after 80 years. Didn't deal with what was going on in Europe that much. Also, Canada was occupied by the US since the end of WWI - except for Quebec which was later given independence as a US ally.
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Old 13 Nov 2017, 02:02 PM   #680115 / #11
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Originally Posted by Here Rests A Cemetery View Post
Slavs would have been wiped out. Austria Hungary empire would have expanded, potentially. As someone mentioned, the entirety of Baltic & Balkan territory would have been annexed.
(Wikipedia)File:Mitteleuropa ENG wielgórski.PNG, at (Wikipedia)Mitteleuropa

Turning Poland and the Baltic States into German-dominated puppet states. I'd mentioned that earlier, and I'd noted that it has the potential to cause more strife. Like Russia "rescuing" Poland.
Poland would never have been an independent state. Bulgaria would have gotten territory from Romania and Austria Hungary would have kept Transylvania.
A lot of what is thought of as the status quo before WWII is a result of the Central Powers losing WWI, and the Russian Revolution.
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 09:25 PM   #680268 / #12
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Poland would never have been an independent state.
One has to be careful here, and look at pre-partition Poland rather than post-WWII Poland.

Prussia got northern and western Poland, Austria got southern Poland, and Russia central and eastern Poland. Central Poland including the nation's capital, Warsaw. Prussia becoming part of the German Empire.

As part of the Brest-Litovsk treaty, Germany got the Russian part of Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and Belarus. Austria-Hungary got Ukraine.

Are you saying that Germany would have annexed the Russian part of Poland? Or only that Germany would have let that part of Poland become a nominally-independent German puppet state?
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