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Old 08 Nov 2017, 08:25 PM   #679673 / #326
MattShizzle
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This still isn't the time for name-calling on Clinton or Sanders supporters. Going to need both if we don't want Trump again in 2020. He still has enough moron supporters. Or Pence if he somehow gets impeached/resigns. I don't think either Sanders or Clinton should run in 2020 though. But since 4 more years worth of Millenials will be eligible to vote and there will be Boomers and the older generation dying, they better at least think of those who aren't centrists.
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Old 08 Nov 2017, 11:03 PM   #679709 / #327
Koyaanisqatsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattShizzle View Post
This still isn't the time for name-calling on Clinton or Sanders supporters. Going to need both if we don't want Trump again in 2020.
Not really. Clinton won, remember? There was no “revolution” and the country did not in fact move farther right; exactly the opposite in fact as evidenced by Clinton’s record-breaking turnout. The chances of yet another .02% differential occurring again in just three pivotal states are, well at least the same as what happened. Nate Silver had that at 10.6% if memory serves, but surely that would be exponentially lower in regard to a repeat occurrence.

Not to mention the fact that Sanders didn’t draw any significant votes. 6% is not a significant percentage in a primary. For comparison’s sake, Obama and Clinton each garnered around 30% in their first presidential primary bids.

The bigger problem, however, is that Sanders is alienating female and minority voters, which vastly outnumber young white males (Sanders’ core devotees, evidently) among Dems. Iow, Sanders is a cancer, not a curative or something benign and the longer he stays in any way prominent the more he divides and drives voters away from voting in 2020.

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But since 4 more years worth of Millenials will be eligible to vote and there will be Boomers and the older generation dying, they better at least think of those who aren't centrists.
Actually, had the election just been Millennials, Clinton would have won in a landslide. There was an increased percentage of Millennials (primarily in the youngest percentile of 18-24 year olds) that voted third party (most likely Stein), but that’s arguably more attributable to the fact that that age group was the most duped by Sanders’ idealist/populist fraud that in turn was widely rejected.

Yes, there is still a core small percentage of Sanders zombies that keep the myth of the “rigged” primary alive as we have just seen, but as you point out there are still four (three, but really two) more years to go, but consider what those up and comers witnessed. They saw Sanders fail miserably, not just in the primaries but also now with his fake “medicare for all” gambit as well as in regard to everyone he’s backed. Meanwhile, Trump is imploding and the real hero of the election—Clinton—is slowly being revealed in all of the gerrymandering and election fraud tactics as well as the significant “I just thought she had it locked” awakening.

Iow, the real revelations among new Millennial voters is that their votes really do matter and those votes were for Clinton. Those who voted for Stein saw exactly how that was a waste and contributed to getting us Trump.

Ioow, Sanders, because he refuses to leave the spotlight is actually revealing his true fraudulent colors while Clinton—who got fucked out of the spotlight—is coming more into focus as being the right one all along.

You’re right, of course, that neither will likely run again, but the realization that there is no such thing as “farther left” than either Sanders or Clinton is what is going to win us the WH again in 2020. Well, that and the implosion trainwreck that is the Trumpsterfire of course.
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Old 09 Nov 2017, 12:50 AM   #679715 / #328
MattShizzle
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I'm sick of Centrists. This country sucks ass because the ones who run as Democrats would typically be considered right of center in more civilized countries and those who run as Republicans would be considered unelectable lunatics. We need things like
1. real national health care
2. reduce the gap between rich and poor - the highest paid person in a company shouldn't make more than - say - 50 times what the lowest paid full tome person makes. And adjust by hours for part time so they just don't make everyone at the bottom part time. Highest paid person includes all stockholders who aren't actually employees. Anything they make over the 50X limit is taxed at 100%. They want to make more, they have to pay everyone more.
3. Mandatory 3 weeks paid vacation for everyone. Also mandatory maternity leave
4. Really enforce establishment clause - no religion allowed in government AT ALL - no under god in pledge, no in god we trust as motto/on money
5. Abortion legal at any point in pregnancy for any reason and no reason required to be given.
6. Cut the military in half (at least)
7. Set a minimum income for income tax - at a higher than subsistance level
8. NO tax cuts for rich - tax INCREASE for the rich. Maybe not what it was in the 50s but should be at least 50% at the highest income levels and even higher for capital gains. Corporate tax rate should be at least 75%.
9. Minimum wage must be a living wage.
10. Any company moving overseas to avoid any of this is not allowed to do business/sell any products in the US PERIOD.
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Old 09 Nov 2017, 03:11 PM   #679768 / #329
Koyaanisqatsi
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You essentially just listed the DNC platform. But it’s not a matter of rhetoric; it’s a matter or what can actually be accomplished. Sanders can say anything he wants, but that doesn’t make him any farther left than Clinton. The only thing that matters is what they actually accomplished and to that end they are effectively the same person. Their speeches in regard to Iraq were nearly identical. The only difference was Sanders did not see a reason “this week” to give Bush authority to act “unilaterally,” but he had no problem—and stated quite clearly his support of—using military force to back the UN. Which is ironically exactly what we did.

America has always leaned toward social democracy. The problem isn’t with the American people and what they want—as a majority—their government to enact; the problem has always been a smaller percentage who will use any means necessary to fuck over anyone that tries to take anything away from rich people. It’s not even rich people that necessarily agree with that approach, btw. It’s adversarial; on autopilot basically. The have-nots are trying to take from the haves so the haves institutionalized a battle against any such encroachment just as an automatic reactionary front.

You are (and have been pretty much with every post you’ve ever posted in politics) arguing for an enlightened despot to take over power and force change. That is totalitarianism, no matter if you think it’s for the good. You can’t force someone at gun point to be nice to strangers no matter how convinced you are that being nice to strangers is a higher moral good than using a weapon to threaten someone into it.

There are just always going to be assholes who want to be mean to strangers no matter how big a gun you threaten them with. That’s not a negotiable situation; that’s fundemantal to humanity, evidently. Perhaps once we are downloadable, that will all go away and we can load ourselves into our little black cubes and live eternally in our respective programmed heavens, but until that time it’s always going to be adversarial. Which means the best course of action will always be in the center, where the most good for the most people can obtain.

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